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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    There are WTO rules that prevent us from doing more.

    The govt is doing its bit. It has to become an all of india thing. If 1.3 billion refuse to buy then China cannot sell here.

    Rinse & repeat around the world. Want to contain China then refuse to buy from them.

    There are some things that cannot be substituted but paying a little more instead of going for lowest cost has to become a conscious decision.

    Those that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing as Steve Bannon says.

    Captain James Fanell was saying something similar. He paid more attention to where things he bought came from as he felt his money would be used against those he served with.
    I buy Korean cellphones, bought one for my mom too - both 'Made in India'. The PCBs on the other hand is imported from China, so.......

    My MacBook is designed in California, but built in China, so.....

    I'm buying American and Korean, but those are made in China, so....

    India exports iron ore (among others) to China, and buys finished steel products from China, so....

    Problem is the Indian government. Congress or the BJP, these ruling thugs have a greedy socialist mentality. Wait, let me give benefit of doubt to the ruling thugs for a minute here. It's the bureaucratic mentality, that babus of one of the toughest crappiest exams (IAS) in the world produce, that hinders progress. An Agriculture graduate who clears IAS is given charge of rural education, after 3-4 years he is shunted out to rural education, both of which are not his speciality. What the hell is this? Honest officers do not even get 10 years to serve their district, then from where would development come. And then there are the oldies - the thug politicians, who think socialist, eat socialist and shit socialist mantras. Give the poor 1kg rice at INR 1. They have made Indians lazy, just like they are. I can bet, even in 4th world African countries, the government doesn't provide 1 kg rice at INR 1.

    Corporate taxes were lowered for newer entrants in manufacturing to 15%, how many set-up shops in India? We (me, neighbours) are building the road of our lane, with our money, and the money sanctioned the by Government is eaten up by thugs in Government offices. BJP at the centre, BJP in state, but where is the accountability? If I try to become an activist, file some RTI (right to information), I will be murdered, and no one will care.

    Unless top economies, US, EU ask their companies to stop profiteering from slave labor, India cannot do jack. Heck, we are dependent on China for statues of our Gods. See those cute little Ganesha idols in Shivaji market, yep, those like millions of others come from China. Bashing authoritarian CPC is okay, but, hardly do we see the insights of the entrepreneurial spirit of the ordinary Chinese. These people can work, and work very very hard. One of them came to North India, saw the huge demand of statues of Gods being sold, went back to China, perfected the models, built those, exported them to India at a cheaper rate than Indian clay potters would sell, and still made profit. How does one beat that entrepreneurial spirit of the ordinary Chinese?

    Too many cooks spoil the broth - this is the classic Indian problem. We talk too much and at the same time, so nothing gets sorted, decisions remain in a limbo. How hard is it to Xerox the Singapore economic model? After the first Covid lockdown, I went to withdraw money from the nearest ATM. I saw a guy, early 40s, looked like migrant labour from one of the BIMARU states, lying outside the ATM asking for money. I usually don't pay beggars, but I did pay him. He was very weak, probably didn't have much to eat for the whole Covid lockdown month. A week or so later, I again visit the ATM, same guy, semi-naked, but he is rarely moving now. Good folks have bought bread, fruits, drinks for him, most of which lay untouched. I felt a pathetic sense of shame, the rage of not being able to do anything. I bought a bottle of water, and kept it beside him. He sure has a family back home. Maybe parents, wife, kids. We are a surplus food producing nation, and people still die of hunger. And what about the district administration? The DC, Police, Politicians, they were the only ones roaming during the lockdown, they could have easily found a place for that guy. They didn't. People should have at least some heart and try to become human only if for a moment.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      The Turbot War (all hot air, no hot weapons) settled that question inb the 1990s.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War

      Before EEZ's became a thing in 1977, Canada allowed foreign fishing fleets to base in Canada (!)

      This led to overfishing over three odd decades and the cod stock collapsed around Newfoundland causing economic distress and migration out of the area.

      So a replacement species was sought. Turbot or Greenland Halibut.

      The Spanish & Portuguese fishing fleets explored and found fishing grounds to exploit.

      It's curious they would come this far to fish and the Americans had no interest. Didn't like the taste maybe.

      This was a spat was between Canada & Spain.

      Here's the thing.

      Canada argues the Halibut migrated out of their EEZ and that quotas be set for fishing outside their EEZ (!)

      Canada was not alone in recognising the growing value of the turbot, and foreign fishing fleets operating off the 200-nautical-mile EEZ were also beginning to pursue the species in increasing numbers, as a response to the Northern cod moratorium. But the Turbot was not a fish under quota regulation in NAFO until the autumn of 1994 when it established a catch limit. Prior to the catch limit, Spanish vessels had explored turbot fishery on the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks.

      The Canadians claimed that the Turbot had relocated outside their EEZ to deeper waters, and they should have quotas based on their historical fisheries inside its EEZ.
      I'm surprised Canada could make this argument about fishing OUTSIDE their EEZ.

      Canada was using the "special interest of the coastal state" from UNCLOS to advocate setting quotas.

      Canada wanted to prevent overfishing outside their EEZ due to fear the Turbot stocks would likewise be depleted like cod was earlier.

      Arguments over quotas back & forth with the EU. They want more, Canada wants to set the limit lower. And then who gets the majority share of that quota.

      Fishing continues. violations observed inside Canada's EEZ as well as over fishing out of it.

      Canadian coast guard captures a spanish fishing vessel. Tries the crew. Displays its illegal fishing net outside the UN.

      Spain protests but eventually backs off with EU pressure.


      Comment


      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Problem is the Indian government. Congress or the BJP, these ruling thugs have a greedy socialist mentality.
        Am referring to this

        Govt may cut funds for Chinese tech | HT | Jun 29 2020

        India may tighten its economic squeeze on China with New Delhi planning to discourage states from using Chinese equipment and technology in the strategic power sector by withholding funding to such projects from government-owned lenders to such projects if they use Chinese imports, two people aware of the development said.

        At stake are contracts worth billions of dollars under India’s proposed distribution reform programme—tentatively named Samarth—with an estimated capital outlay of ₹3.5 lakh crore. The scheme aims to slash electricity losses of power distributors to under 12% and install prepaid smart meters across the power distribution chain, including 250 million households. “The idea is to ensure they don’t use Chinese equipment or technology. These financing lines may be made conditional to that,” said a government official cited above.
        This is from six months ago. There has not been any movement since, things are likely in limbo for now. The govt is the biggest buyer of Chinese goods. Start there.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Corporate taxes were lowered for newer entrants in manufacturing to 15%, how many set-up shops in India?
        Requires more work.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        We (me, neighbours) are building the road of our lane, with our money, and the money sanctioned the by Government is eaten up by thugs in Government offices. BJP at the centre, BJP in state, but where is the accountability? If I try to become an activist, file some RTI (right to information), I will be murdered, and no one will care.
        This is how Deve Gowda became a politician. Cornering govt contracts for roads.

        Some time back a project called Tender Sure began in Blr, this one cut out the local contractors who promptly howled and alleged corruption. it's got public support so that's a start. The roads they've built so far are decent. It's a small initiative for now.

        Now as for what you said abut the road. I've been given to understand this is what you can do with the BJP. Meaning you could not get that road done even if you wanted to with the previous administration. Agree ?

        People have got power to their village in the same way whereas earlier it was not possible. Transformers installed, repaired or replaced. Come together, decide what needs to be done then work with the local administration and get it done.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Unless top economies, US, EU ask their companies to stop profiteering from slave labor, India cannot do jack.
        We were the ones to ban Chinese apps and others followed. Does not seem like much but it got traction.

        Aussies were the ones to ask for accountability for the pandemic.

        That is thought leadership. Any country can do it. Size does not matter. All it takes is will.

        Under Trump, the US has done a lot here in setting the tone & direction.

        Two years ago it was not clear whether it was just rhetoric. Its more clear today.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Heck, we are dependent on China for statues of our Gods. See those cute little Ganesha idols in Shivaji market, yep, those like millions of others come from China. Bashing authoritarian CPC is okay, but, hardly do we see the insights of the entrepreneurial spirit of the ordinary Chinese. These people can work, and work very very hard. One of them came to North India, saw the huge demand of statues of Gods being sold, went back to China, perfected the models, built those, exported them to India at a cheaper rate than Indian clay potters would sell, and still made profit. How does one beat that entrepreneurial spirit of the ordinary Chinese?
        The spirit is always there, it does not have a coordinated state machinery backing it like in China. That's not the model we follow.

        Roads that go nowhere. That factory that employs nobody. Those housing skyscrapers that nobody lives in. Ghost cities. Ports that can never be profitable.

        Sound familiar ? that's BRI. We call it debt trap diplomacy but its just the China model.

        Replicating the same crap abroad (!)

        Over capacity. Misallocation of resources. So long as there is money in the kitty the party continues until its over.

        So they are always looking for ways to put what they have to use and the way to do that is to be cut throat price competitive.

        Otherwise that other competing Chinese company from that other town with the mayor that's even more desperate gets the contract.

        Infrastructure is a birth right for commies. That's how they feel good about themselves.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Too many cooks spoil the broth - this is the classic Indian problem. We talk too much and at the same time, so nothing gets sorted, decisions remain in a limbo. How hard is it to Xerox the Singapore economic model?
        We are a free country so this is how democracy works.

        Reforms were stalled by vested interests. Narasimha could do only so much without risking everything getting reversed by the next administration which to his credit has endured since.

        The only way we reform is when there is no alternative.

        Jaitley used to go on about competitive federalism. States taking initiatives and others following suit.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        After the first Covid lockdown, I went to withdraw money from the nearest ATM. I saw a guy, early 40s, looked like migrant labour from one of the BIMARU states, lying outside the ATM asking for money. I usually don't pay beggars, but I did pay him. He was very weak, probably didn't have much to eat for the whole Covid lockdown month. A week or so later, I again visit the ATM, same guy, semi-naked, but he is rarely moving now. Good folks have bought bread, fruits, drinks for him, most of which lay untouched. I felt a pathetic sense of shame, the rage of not being able to do anything. I bought a bottle of water, and kept it beside him. He sure has a family back home. Maybe parents, wife, kids. We are a surplus food producing nation, and people still die of hunger. And what about the district administration? The DC, Police, Politicians, they were the only ones roaming during the lockdown, they could have easily found a place for that guy. They didn't. People should have at least some heart and try to become human only if for a moment.
        You are asking for social services here. If no one funds them things won't change. In the end its the community that does it. This we have in spades and its a strength. Along with family. When the state steps in those links get weakened. Is it better than what we have now ? you can argue either way.

        Ever seen a Sikh begging on the street ? neither have I.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Jan 21,, 14:11.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Canadian coast guard captures a spanish fishing vessel. Tries the crew. Displays its illegal fishing net outside the UN.

          Spain protests but eventually backs off with EU pressure.
          A little more than that. Spain dispatched two warships. Canadian Prime Minister Chretien gave a weapons hot order. Result: one Spanish frigate had to limp into CFB Halifax for repairs. Lesson: Do not dispatch a warship in need of repairs.

          Chimo

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            A little more than that. Spain dispatched two warships. Canadian Prime Minister Chretien gave a weapons hot order. Result: one Spanish frigate had to limp into CFB Halifax for repairs. Lesson: Do not dispatch a warship in need of repairs.
            So Spain sent the Nina and Pinta. Well Canada has abundant wood resources.

            Comment


            • An Authoritative Chinese Assessment of How China Views India

              Important are two recent articles by Hu Shisheng, Director of the Institute for South Asian Studies at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR). He is probably the Institute’s leading expert on South Asian affairs, especially India and Pakistan. The CICIR is one of China’s most influential institutes and is directly under the Ministry of State Security (MoSS), China’s external intelligence establishment. Most recently Yuan Peng, President of CICIR and an Americas expert, addressed the 26th ‘study session’ of the CCP CC Politburo on December 12, to offer suggestions on how China should engage with the United States.
              They hilariously blame every problem on Modi, RSS and Hindu nationalism, straight out of the Indian leftist playbook. Hu Shisheng needs to be introduced to Siddharth Varadarajan of The Wire. Kindred spirits if there ever were any.
              Last edited by Firestorm; 08 Jan 21,, 20:21.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                An Authoritative Chinese Assessment of How China Views India

                They hilariously blame every problem on Modi, RSS and Hindu nationalism, straight out of the Indian leftist playbook. Hu Shisheng needs to be introduced to Siddharth Varadarajan of The Wire. Kindred spirits if there ever were any.
                Hilarious read. Oh thy communists, at least once try to speak the truth in your god damned life. If India doesn't understand China, China doesn't understand Modi.

                Politicians who rise through the RSS are nationalists, which means they think of the country first, rather than friends or family like KHANGRESS. Based upon their grassroot work, they are made in-charge of some state, either as a ministerial candidate or to oversee election preparations. One can buy ticket to run for an election from the Khangress, but this doesn't happen in RSS. Modi, and his cabinet ministers are NOT corrupt - this, the fcuking Gandhis don't understand. A lie repeated becomes the truth, this is the plank on which the dynastic bootlickers want to contest against Modi. If Modi does nothing, he is criticised. If he does something, he is criticised. Look at the farm laws, and how the scamgressis and the communists have spinned it. For 70 years, Scamgress kept India poor, their people still control the bureaucratic mess India finds itself in. India needs another 30 years of BJP rule, to clear this backlog of mediocre scamgressi bureaucratic shit.

                Hindu nationalism accommodates all religions. Hindu nationalism is country first, not Hindus first. About time the morons in western press understand this, instead of blindly copying Indian leftist voices, or paying leftist and Pakistani 2-cent journalists to write about it. And what is this nonsense about Muslims being harassed in India and what not. Damn crime happens, and the left labels it as Modi's fault. If I go and punch a muslim guy, Modi will get the blame. Are muslims a minority? What are jews and the parsis then? Everybody seems to be happy, other than some people and countries with agendas.

                After Modi became the PM in 2014, Pravin Togadia then International President of the VHP used to embarrass the Modi government every week with his far-right crap statements. What happened? He was made an example of. He disappeared one day, and the media found him in a hospital, beaten black and blue. He said the Gujarat-Rajasthan police wanted to kill him in a staged encounter. Oh, and he lost control of the VHP too. This is what happens and should happen when a far-right idiot crosses the line. Muslims were lynched in North India, and who gets the blame, yep, Modi, as if the PM have no other work and sanctions murder of ordinary muslims. The lynching of those muslims have a socio-economic connection that no one wants to talk about. 1947, India gets her independence, and India was poor. No nightclubs, no restaurants, no money, not everyone could afford to go to cinema halls (metros), remember India is rural India back then. People worked fields in the day, come home in the evening, power cuts galore. Sex was their only form of relaxation and enjoyment. People screwed like rabbits and hence the population exploded. My father's family consists of 3 brothers and 5 sisters. Mother's family consists of 4 sisters and 4 brothers. But during the 80s, Hindus understood that with so many children, they will not be able to educate all of them properly, and people started using contraceptions. From 8-10 kids, most Hindus started having 2-3 kids. Nowadays Hindus prefer 1 kid.

                This thinking has not crossed over to muslim societies in India. Most muslims still have a minimum of 4-5 kids. Please see, that I said 'most'. There are educated muslims who prefer 2 kids or less nowadays, since they have cracked the 'having kid and educating them' code. So, a poor muslim, with 3 kids, no viable means of feeding them, can't send them to convents for a good primary education, send them to madrasah. Madrasahs are not the shining beacon of science and technology now, are they? They end up learning Arabic & Quran, and nothing more. Learn Arabic and Quran and become the stableboy of an Arab Shiek. Heck there too they have competition from Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Some take up odd jobs, some start small scale business, while some start to rob, steal and murder. It's very easy to steal cows, transport them from one state to another and earn easy money. Hindus who lose cows to thieves one day act and a lynching happens, and the police just looks the other way. Pent-up anger explodes. Lynching also happened, because some far-right Hindus thought Modi would endorsed their efforts. Modi did not. Do we hear about lynchings now? No. Why not? Because in a chaotic place like India, it takes time for orders to filter down, that nonsense would not be tolerated. There are Hindus too who fall in the criminal category, but that is for another day, socio-economics 101. We're not discussing politics here, so this is it.
                Last edited by Oracle; 09 Jan 21,, 02:33.
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                Comment


                • How does the PLA clear the tops we took in Aug ? Deploy tanks within firing range. This from five days ago.





                  Comment


                  • Appears to be more Taiwan directed but will there be any implications for India ? Article does not say


                    Military and political analysts said the amendments aimed to strengthen the country’s military leadership under Xi, providing it with the legal grounds to respond to the challenges of accelerating confrontations between China and the US.

                    Taipei-based military expert Chi Le-yi said the amendments highlighting the use of armed forces to suppress national disruption would be used to target independence-leaning forces in Taiwan, which Beijing regards as part of its territory.

                    Chi said the ultimate goal of the amended defence law could be seen as Beijing’s latest response to the US policy of comprehensive strategic containment of a rising China.
                    China’s military takes charge of war powers with new defence law | SCMP | Jan 03 2021


                    For the first time, “disruption” and protection of “development interests” have been added to the legislation as grounds for the mobilisation and deployment of troops and reserve forces.
                    So, i'm a big advocate of dismantling Chinese infrastructure that is built in places it should not be. Are these guys going to invoke their "development interests" clause now.

                    Chen Daoyin, an independent political commentator and former professor at the Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, said the changes showed the regime had gained the confidence to legitimise its long-standing principle that “the party commands the gun” and stamp its “absolute leadership over armed and reserved forces”.

                    “The move to include ‘development interests’ as a reason for armed mobilisation and war in the law would provide legal grounds for the country to launch war in the legitimate name of defending national development interests,” Chen said.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Jan 21,, 12:46.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      They belive 100 ICBMs to be sufficent, up from 24.
                      Pompeo thinks that number will double within a decade

                      The PLA will deploy this missile in silos and on mobile platforms in the near future, and we expect that—if current trends hold—China will at least double its total nuclear arsenal in the next decade.
                      China's Nuclear Build-Up Should Worry the West | Newsweek (op-ed) | Jan 04 2021


                      Paired with its weapons modernization, Beijing's nuclear posture is getting more aggressive, threatening even non-nuclear neighbors and undermining confidence in its so-called "No First Use" policy. The Department of Defense's reports also show evidence that the PLA is moving to a "launch-on-warning" posture.
                      Things that make you go hmmm.....

                      Has China made any nuke threats lately ? don't recall

                      But Mike is questioning China's NFU as well as suggesting a move to launch on warning.

                      The cold war was launch on impact so that's quite a reach for China.


                      Oracle, you made a post here some months back (can't find it) about China increasing nuke numbers

                      The open source link to check for this is nuclear notebook

                      https://thebulletin.org/nuclear-notebook/

                      Only goes up to 2020 and says..

                      We estimate that China has a produced a stockpile of approximately 350 nuclear warheads, of which roughly 272 are for delivery by more than 240 operational land-based ballistic missiles, 48 sea-based ballistic missiles, and 20 nuclear gravity bombs assigned to bombers.

                      The remaining 78 warheads are intended to arm additional land- and sea-based missiles that are in the process of being fielded (see Table 1).

                      This estimate is higher than the “low-200” warheads reported by the Pentagon in its 2020 report to Congress; however, the Pentagon’s estimate only refers to “operational” Chinese nuclear warheads, and therefore presumably excludes warheads that are attributed to newer weapons still in development (US Defense Department 2020a). It is also possible that the Pentagon’s estimate does not include dormant bomber weapons. Taking those categories into account, the Pentagon’s estimate is roughly in line with our own.
                      So in a years time we will know whether numbers have increased for '21
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Jan 21,, 14:48.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Oracle, you made a post here some months back (can't find it) about China increasing nuke numbers
                        If I have to fight an adversary, I will make sure I have the money/tools/alliances to win at any cost. Basic human nature of smart people. Not that I think Xi is smart.

                        What we have are open source deliberations that tells us China has 240 nukes. Xi became GS of the CCP in Nov, 2012. It's 2021 now. Anyone who deliberates, or says that China's nuke warheads have not increased are fooling themselves and us. How much I don't know. But with the amount of $$$$$$ at China's disposal, 350 would be a realistic number at this point of time.

                        Always remember, CCP wants to establish China as a predominant force on earth by displacing America. Pre-dominant force with what? 3rd generation Air Force, a green water navy. BS. It's nukes.

                        Edit: I replied even before reading the article you quoted before the last paragraph. 350.
                        Last edited by Oracle; 10 Jan 21,, 17:56.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          How does the PLA clear the tops we took in Aug ? Deploy tanks within firing range. This from five days ago.


                          Those are within range of shoulder fired anti-tank missiles in our arsenal. Chinese intimidation is not working. As I type this, a PLA corporal is under the Indian Army's interrogation, being caught up in the wrong side of the LAC.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • New national defense law to protect China’s development interests | GT (op-ed) | Dec 28 2020

                            when China's sovereignty, unification, territorial integrity, security and development interests are threatened then it shall conduct a national or partial mobilization in accordance with the Constitution and laws.
                            I guess the territorial integrity part already covers India.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

                              As I type this, a PLA corporal is under the Indian Army's interrogation, being caught up in the wrong side of the LAC.
                              Corporal !! Corporal !! Why is it always a bloody corporal. Why can't we nab a sergeant or better still an officer for a change.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_...y_Ground_Force

                              What do we put this down to. The guy had one too many and wanted to socialise ?

                              Pretty damn cold up there and a little courage helps make it easier

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	India_Captures_Chinese_Soldier_on_Disputed_Border (Gifrun).gif Views:	0 Size:	246.1 KB ID:	1570718

                              Either that or our curries taste better than their Kung Pao
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Jan 21,, 18:46.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

                                Those are within range of shoulder fired anti-tank missiles in our arsenal. Chinese intimidation is not working.
                                Why can't they talk about the Indian border. All they got for the last month is from the Krygyz and Kazakh border.





                                Hmm, yes am feeling that "great wall of steel"



                                One from Tibet, looks like the Nepal Border
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Jan 21,, 19:23.

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