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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    When the Chinese first intruded into Depsang sector, without informing the press and keeping P4 informed, we should have kicked the PLA out. The Indian Army is battle ready, but the politicians are not.
    Took us a few weeks to mobilse and match their numbers. That was the element of surprise in their favour. Which got aggravated because we trusted the Russians.

    All i can say is the next time will be harder for them as we will have roads in a better state than present. We will be going at it now non stop until the job is done.

    I'm not sure how a war works, what would the objective be ? push them back to the border.

    So we throw them out. They come back we end up with a hot border that will go on for how long ?

    Month or two. Things calm down. They start firing on the border like happens at the LoC.

    Pak hope is to merge LOC & LAC as a hot border that can go on for years.

    Every one who wants war expects they will back off and not return. No hot border on the LAC.

    Nobody can show me how to make that happen.

    If we knew that we'd have no hot border at the LOC in the first place then isn't it.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Oct 20,, 04:31.

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    • ^ All of it, is the fault of India's FP under Modi, Doval and whoever jack the idiot is in the team. Traits like magnanimity and appeasement have no place in the mundane world of realpolitik.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
          ^ All of it, is the fault of India's FP under Modi, Doval and whoever jack the idiot is in the team. Traits like magnanimity and appeasement have no place in the mundane world of realpolitik.
          Three points
          1. The trust deficit engendered by the current altercation will be difficult to bridge and, honestly speaking, India should not even attempt to do so. It must work under the assumption that China is an untrustworthy neighbour to avoid further grief in the future -- lesson number one.

          2. To finetune our China policy we need to decipher the Chinese mindset -- lesson number two.

          3. Traits like magnanimity and appeasement have no place in the mundane world of realpolitik as India has learned the hard way and must be jettisoned in favour of a more transactional approach.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Oct 20,, 20:11.

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          • To finetune our China policy we need to decipher the Chinese mindset -- CPC wants to rule the world, how hard is that to decipher? Han domination of the entire world. Not all Hans want that, but the CPC does.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Part 3 from Rohit



              Building supporting roads to DBO in case the Darbuk Shyok road gets interdicted.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Oct 20,, 05:58.

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              • Will India face a China-Pakistan war in November?
                Did Modi ignore Xi's betrayal in Ladakh?


                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                Comment


                • US elections seems to be the window through which an attack is feasible. This is the operating basis for these theories.

                  The upshot of that could be a hamstrung US government, which would find it difficult to support India by threatening China and Pakistan with war.
                  Does he really believe that ? the US would not threaten war on both Pakistan & China without some treaty agreement in place.

                  And if that is the case any time to attack regardless of US elections is a possibility. Assuming that is what China wants.

                  Ashley & others see no mobilisation or posture on the Pak side that suggests this. Why do the Paks need to do anything when China can do the dirty work.

                  For Pakistan to get involved when they cannot take anything is just asking for trouble. What is their cut out of this for the effort.

                  Perhaps this expectation lay behind former chief minister Farooq Abdullah's jibe that 'China would restore Article 370' (which symbolised the special status of Jammu and Kashmir under the Constitution until August 5, last year).
                  AIM's jibe to Farooq Abdulla's China comment is to consider him a true patriot advocating for Xianjiang style handling of muslims in J&K.

                  The idea in Kashmir seems to be that whatever action might take place will be about the future of Jammu and Kashmir, not just a marginal realignment of the LAC.
                  This is either wishful thinking or an abject surrender to China. Pak thinking. Why is an Indian like Farooq Abdulla saying this.

                  The man has to say something inflammatory that will get him a headline some where regardless of how ill considered such a statement may be.

                  He's been out of the saddle for over a year and is nervous how relevant he and his family is any more. Media seems to treat him as if he still is CM.

                  Most strategic thinkers in New Delhi seem to have come around to the view that China will push on with its aggression in Ladakh, at least south of Pangong Tso. They differ over when to expect this. Some think it will come relatively soon, and these analysts might be willing to accept the November scenario.
                  A bad idea considering we dominate the heights and that tenuous 120km supply route to Rutog. Should they break out of the Spanggur gap then many possibilities arise but we will make it pure hell for them before that.

                  He has not mentioned Depsang as he's not familiar with developments there.

                  However, other analysts think it will not be before next year, and yet others think it will take a few years before things really heat up on the border.
                  hehe, if not Nov, then next year. If not next year then a few years later.

                  If the PLA wanted to attack they've have done it in May or June when the had the element of surprise and numbers. They did not. Because a fight was not on the books.

                  Does not mean it cannot happen just unlikely.

                  It does mean we have to always be prepared for one.

                  The Indian Army's Northern Command would be stretched if all three of the corps under it -- based in Leh, Srinagar, and Nagrota (near Jammu) -- were to face hostilities.

                  The limitations of road connectivity across the Himalayan ranges in winter would add logistical difficulties.

                  Troops, armaments, ammunition, and supplies of the other army commands would need to remain in their place in case hostilities were to spread to other fronts closer to New Delhi, or involving the north east.
                  This is something Gen Hasnain would have a better idea about. He does not think the PLA showed up with the intent to take any territory.
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 17 Oct 20,, 20:52.

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                  • Despite Modi and Xi's post Doklam summit meetings in Wuhan in April 2018 and in Mamallapuram in October 2019, it appears that China not only wishes India to acquiesce to vacating more territory in Ladakh but it also wants India to sit down with both China and Pakistan in a trilateral setting and resolve the issue of Jammu and Kashmir to their advantage and satisfaction.
                    Your read this and think back to the UPA period and wonder to what extent was China dictating policy to us !!

                    Aman ki Asha and all

                    They had a rude shock when Modi entered office and all the previous assumptions went out the window.

                    It is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Indian or Israeli or US spy satellites would not have missed detecting Chinese troop movements in Tibet towards the Ladakh-Tibet frontier.

                    Then why did some important functionaries in the Government of India choose to only ask the Russians about this in April 2020 as is being speculated?

                    Was this Russian reassurance of Chinese troop movements only being part of a routine exercise, the reason that Leh-based XIV Corps remained in its barracks on the official grounds that there was a pandemic on and, therefore, it did not mobilise itself for its annual summer exercises near the LAC?

                    These are very important questions that need honest and authentic answers.
                    Agree, when will this mystery be solved.

                    However, on 15 June 2020, an unarmed Indian verification patrol that discovered some newly erected PLA structures on Indian territory was ambushed by the PLA.

                    The commanding officer, who led the verification patrol, and his men were brutally murdered by the PLA using primitive clubs and other medieval-era weapons.

                    Twenty Indian soldiers from the 16 Bihar Regiment -- including their commanding officer, a Colonel -- were brutally murdered.

                    Thereafter, Indian troops retaliated in a frenzy of vengeance and similarly finished off anywhere between 34 to 105 PLA troops. The Chinese foreign ministry has not disclosed the number of Chinese killed.
                    That's the sequence of events.

                    Did Xi deliver a message to Modi at Mamallapuram, which though couched in a velvet glove was time-bound? What was that message?

                    Did Modi reject that message by not going forward to fulfil it?

                    Was the Trump visit and Modi's lack of response to Xi's mysterious message interpreted by Xi as a rejection of his proposition contained in that message?
                    hmm, now what would this message be ?
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Oct 20,, 04:25.

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                    • Well, its happening. Twitter now shows Leh as part of the PRC as Nitin discovered

                      https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/sta...02232486637568

                      J&K is now a part of the PRC according to twitter.

                      What happened to those dumb ass fact checkers in CA ?

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                      Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Oct 20,, 16:55.

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                      • CA?

                        Time is coming for blood to be shed for territorial integrity.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                        • Yeah, twitter outsource fact checking to some outfits in California.

                          Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                          Time is coming for blood to be shed for territorial integrity.
                          Taiwanese have the same impression right about now. After China stopped flights landing on one of their islands called Pratas.

                          What matters now is what comes out of the 2+2 agreement and whether there is any forward movement with the quad.

                          China cannot be allowed to take over Pratas otherwise they will try to go further.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Oct 20,, 08:14.

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                          • Odd isn't it that just one guy decides to come over


                            Chinese soldier held in eastern Ladakh after ‘straying’ across LAC; to be handed over to PLA soon | IE | Oct 19 2020

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                            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              No one guy just wanders and goes into the territory of another country during a crisis. Had it been 5 or 10 PLA soldiers, that would have been routine. That PLA soldier came to check Indian military preparation, as well preparation for the winter that is upon us.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                              • Chinese soldier held in eastern Ladakh after ‘straying’ across LAC; to be handed over to PLA soon | IE | Oct 19 2020

                                The soldier, the Indian Army said, “has been provided medical assistance including oxygen, food and warm clothes to protect him from the vagaries of extreme altitude and harsh climatic conditions”.
                                The man was suffering from hypoxemia through lack of climatization. How did he get seperated is the question I would be asking.

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