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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • An idea I heard during a discussion

    Why don't the quad do an air exercise over Ladakh
    Quad should not be limited to just naval engagements, involve other arms of the military as well.

    Ground exercises too.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kuku View Post

      neither will PRC do anything based on this vague and uncertain statement, waste of public money, say nothing do nothing worth nothing statement.
      The 'real' meetings are with the core commanders, the NSA with Wang Yi and the joint secretary meetings.

      These people know the implications of any changes to the LAC and its consequences.

      Not the MEA.

      Contrast that with the 50s where the MEA had a monopoly
      Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Sep 20,, 01:33.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post


        Speaks my language.
        Note his title. Major. Not General.

        Majors, Colonels, Brigadiers are neck deep in ops. These are the guys who have to put into action what the General wants.

        They communicate better to the layperson, because they are more hands on.

        The man does have a way with words and has an avid fan base.

        Pointed to the Colonel that he could do still better in this space but he whined about logistics.

        eg. The extra staff he would have to hire just to reply to fanatical fan mail

        Colonel wanted to be a pornstar (!)

        It's not the same as a pornstar but Gaurav isn't complaining.


        Originally posted by Oracle View Post

        The video I posted of Maj. Gaurav Arya, he mentions the same thing. He says, SSF crossed over to the Chinese side of LAC (technically our land), broke PLA tents and beat them up, whatever that means. Which means, we salami sliced their positions on their side of the LAC, again, technically which is our land (Aksai Chin). He also mentions that the LoC has changed 1000 times since 1948.


        He's saying the same thing here.

        At 8:00 We captured Chinese territory which goes beyond what i've heard.

        We will have to wait like with Galwan for more details to emerge.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Sep 20,, 01:26.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

          Note his title. Major. Not General.

          Majors, Colonels, Brigadiers are neck deep in ops. These are the guys who have to put into action what the General wants.

          They communicate better to the layperson, because they are more hands on.

          The man does have a way with words and has an avid fan base.

          Pointed to the Colonel that he could do still better in this space but he whined about logistics.

          eg. The extra staff he would have to hire just to reply to fanatical fan mail

          Colonel wanted to be a pornstar (!)

          It's not the same as a pornstar but Gaurav isn't complaining.






          He's saying the same thing here.

          At 8:00 We captured Chinese territory which goes beyond what i've heard.

          We will have to wait like with Galwan for more details to emerge.
          I still don't understand how Indian troops died of hypothermia, when Galwan was bone dry at the flashpoint area. Where did they fall, get wet and supposedly die of hypothermia...
          Seek Save Serve Medic

          Comment


          • ^ I don't think they died of hypothermia alone and the lakes had water. It's the fall from the heights, also it gets really cold in the night notwithstanding summer on those heights. So it's injuries + cold water that killed those soldiers, of course some also died during hand-to-hand combat. Google a place called 'Jatinga' in Assam, it's a hill station at an elevation of around 1700 feet. During scorching summer all over India, one needs a light blanket during night to sleep.
            Last edited by Oracle; 21 Sep 20,, 13:13.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 667medic View Post

              I still don't understand how Indian troops died of hypothermia, when Galwan was bone dry at the flashpoint area. Where did they fall, get wet and supposedly die of hypothermia...
              If on the night we demolished whatever was blocking the water then that could be the reason.

              Comment


              • Rohit has come out with his own youtube channel



                Thanks to his work over the months we've become more familiar with the geography of Ladakh than our own states
                Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Sep 20,, 22:20.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                  As someone with no dog in this fight, I cannot understand the hoopla about reaching this summit or that summit or how a brawl is a great victory. Just because you dominate the heights does not mean others will not try to take. The Kargil War should have demonstrated that.
                  Check out Rohit's video above (#1612 ) to get an idea of the geography.

                  If you're PLA tell me how lucky do you feel leading a column down that 100km funnel from Rutog

                  Should you break out of the Spanguur gap the win is substantial.
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Sep 20,, 22:21.

                  Comment


                  • Video shows Chinese soldiers crying as they allegedly head to Sino-Indian border

                    Taiwanese propaganda, or real?
                    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      One of the comments said they were just discharged. So join at 17 and discharge at 19 if they choose to do so and that happens around September.

                      If that's true they're not going to the border, they're going home.

                      We don't see the full video, just stills of them saluting before they board the bus.

                      What was said before they got on the bus would have confirmed it.

                      Who cries if they're scared. I'd have expected them to be more grim faced if what we are told was true.

                      According to Shiv the conscripts that are pissed off are the ones already deployed there since May.

                      Things were supposed to go down in June but nothing happened.

                      These conscripts were due back in September as their two years are up but oops now they can't go back and they don't know when they will go back.
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Sep 20,, 23:27.

                      Comment


                      • China attacked Indian satellite communications: US Report

                        ‘China’s built 13 military positions since Doklam’
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • The Doklam crisis appears to have shifted China’s strategic objectives, with China more than doubling its total number of airbases, air defence positions, and heliports near the Indian border over the past three years,” said the report released on Tuesday.
                          If they're within artillery range they are toast. There is one airport called nyngchi which can be hit by pinaka

                          Comment


                          • This will be fought in the courts but the US has gone ahead and done it


                            Commerce Department Prohibits WeChat and TikTok Transactions to Protect the National Security of the United States | Commerce Dept | Sept 20 2020


                            “Today’s actions prove once again that President Trump will do everything in his power to guarantee our national security and protect Americans from the threats of the Chinese Communist Party,” said U.S. Department of Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. “At the President’s direction, we have taken significant action to combat China’s malicious collection of American citizens’ personal data, while promoting our national values, democratic rules-based norms, and aggressive enforcement of U.S. laws and regulations.”

                            Can You Still Use TikTok After the Trump Administration Bans App Downloads? | The Wrap | Sept 18 2020


                            The real key date to keep in mind is November 12. That’s when President Trump’s executive order, banning TikTok unless its parent company, Beijing-based ByteDance, sells its U.S. operations to an American company, goes into effect. If TikTok isn’t able to reach a deal that alleviates the government’s national security concerns, the app will go away on that date. Still, American users who have the app on their phone as of Sunday would be able to use TikTok until November 12.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Sep 20,, 01:22.

                            Comment


                            • Another writeup on the quad by Jeff smith.

                              If Abe was the creator of Quad 1.0, the credit for Quad 2.0 undoubtedly goes to XJP.

                              Democracy’s Squad: India’s Change Of Heart And The Future Of The Quad | WOTR | Aug 13 2020

                              The combined resources of Australia, India, Japan, and the United States dwarf those of China. In 2018 the aggregate gross domestic product of the Quad, at $29.6 trillion, was more than double the size of the $13.6 trillion Chinese economy. In 2019, the Quad’s combined military budgets ($877 billion) were nearly four times the size of China’s ($261 billion). As a recent report from the Heritage Foundation observes:

                              The Quad represents not just a quarter of the world’s population (1.8 billion people) but a little over a quarter of the world’s economic activity [GDP]. A quarter of all global foreign direct investment flows (averaging over $380 billion a year) come from Quad countries. And by 2018, the Quad held a foreign direct investment stock of $8.7 trillion — or roughly one dollar for every four dollars ever invested abroad.



                              The point of the Quad is not to launch a Soviet-era containment policy. It is to present a more united front of well-armed, highly capable, largely aligned democracies that can have a deterrent effect on Chinese adventurism and efforts to upset the status quo. The more the Quad and like-minded partners speak with a united voice, and the more clearly they articulate their core interests, the costlier it becomes for China to test or cross them. The goal is to win without fighting. The success of the Quad makes that more likely.

                              Despite crossing several key milestones, the Quad 2.0 still faces its share of skeptics, challenges, and questions about its future. For example, the Quad has yet to survive a major change of government in any of its member states. All four are currently led by conservative-leaning parties seen as favorably disposed toward the Quad. At this time, there is nothing to suggest mainstream opposition parties are hostile to the initiative. The sting of the dissolution of the Quad 1.0 still lingers. (Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden hasn’t made any definitive statements about the Quad on the campaign trail but some of his senior advisers have voiced support for the initiative).

                              Nevertheless, changes in government can be unpredictable, and the group may not again see four administrations more favorably inclined toward the Quad than those now in power in Australia, India, Japan, and the United States. They have used the time wisely to establish a solid foundation for the initiative. They should now focus on consolidating recent gains.
                              WOTR articles are always loaded with links. I found the one about Sweden interesting.

                              What did Sweden recently do to piss China off ? Sweden is not usually a country that does things like that.

                              But this time they stood up for a Swedish citizen

                              In 2015 Gui Minhai, a Swedish national who was a bookseller in Hong Kong, disappeared in Thailand and reappeared months later in Chinese custody. His crime seemed to have been selling disparaging books about President Xi Jinping.

                              Mr Gui was released in 2017, but was snatched again months later by plainclothes agents on a train from Shanghai to Beijing, while he was being escorted by Swedish diplomats. The Swedes have been repeatedly denied consular access to Mr Gui; China claims he does not wish to see them. The authorities say he tried to leak state secrets to foreigners.

                              The bookseller’s case has poisoned Chinese-Swedish relations. In November, when he received an award from the Swedish branch of pen, a free-speech group, the Chinese embassy demanded it be rescinded. Then Ambassador Gui warned of “consequences” if Sweden’s culture minister participated in the ceremony. (The minister ignored the warning.) In December the ambassador warned that China would restrict trade with Sweden in retaliation.
                              How Sweden copes with Chinese bullying | The Econmist | Feb 20 2020

                              Originally posted by Chinese Ambassador to Sweden on Swedish public radio
                              “We treat our friends with fine wine, but for our enemies we have shotguns.”

                              China may be using Sweden to send a message to the world—just as it shunned Norway for years after the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Liu Xiaobo, a man who argued that the Chinese people should be allowed to select their own rulers.

                              Ambassador Gui recently remarked to a Swedish newspaper that, for all his talk of shotguns, Sweden was “not important enough to threaten”.
                              is it any surprise that 70% of Swedes have an unfavourable opinion of China
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Sep 20,, 04:03.

                              Comment


                              • Joint Press Release of the 6th round of Senior Commanders’ Meeting between India and China | MEA | Sept 22 2020

                                September 22, 2020

                                On September 21, the Indian and Chinese Senior Commanders held the 6th round of Military Commander-Level Meeting.

                                The two sides had candid and in-depth exchanges of views on stabilizing the situation along the LAC in the India - China border areas.

                                They agreed to earnestly implement the important consensus reached by the leaders of the two countries, strengthen communication on the ground, avoid misunderstandings and misjudgments, stop sending more troops to the frontline, refrain from unilaterally changing the situation on the ground, and avoid taking any actions that may complicate the situation.

                                The two sides also agreed to hold the 7th round of Military Commander-Level Meeting as soon as possible, take practical measures to properly solve problems on the ground, and jointly safeguard peace and tranquility in the border area.

                                New Delhi
                                September 22, 2020
                                Stop sending more troops ? hmm


                                Readout by the Official Spokesperson on the India-China LAC Issue (24 September 2020) | MEA | Sept 24 2020

                                September 24, 2020

                                As you are aware the 6th meeting of the Senior Commanders of India and China took place on 21 September in Moldo.

                                This meeting took place in the backdrop of the meeting of the Defence Ministers of India and China in Moscow on 4th September and also the meeting of the two Foreign Ministers on 10 September. The two Foreign Ministers had reached an agreement that the two sides should continue the dialogue and quickly and comprehensively disengage in all the friction areas.

                                The Senior Commanders met after a period of nearly 50 days.

                                After the meeting the two sides have also issued a joint press release that you would have already seen.

                                I would like to highlight that this is the first joint press release after any Senior Commander’s meeting. As such, it reflects the stated commitment of both sides to disengage along the LAC.

                                As we have pointed out earlier, disengagement is a complex process that requires redeployment of troops by each side towards their regular posts on their respective sides of the LAC. This would require mutually agreed reciprocal actions. Even as two sides work towards complete disengagement in all friction areas, it is at the same time also necessary to ensure stability on the ground. The latest Senior Commander’s meeting should be seen in all this overall context.

                                The 6th meeting gave the Senior Commanders an opportunity to have candid and in-depth exchanges of views on stabilizing the situation along the LAC. The two sides have also decided to strengthen the ground communication to avoid any further misunderstandings and misjudgments, stop sending more troops to the frontline, refrain from unilaterally changing the situation on the ground, and avoid taking any actions that may complicate the situation.

                                The way ahead will be to refrain from making any attempts to unilaterally change the status quo, while the two sides continue their discussions to achieve complete disengagement in all friction areas and to ensure full restoration of peace and tranquility in the border areas.

                                In this regard, the two sides have also decided to have the next meeting of the Senior Commanders at the earliest. In parallel, the next meeting of the WMCC is also likely to take place soon.

                                New Delhi
                                September 24, 2020
                                MEA thinks both sides have agreed to disengage ? some how that is not what i read from the Joint commanders statement.

                                All they said is they would not add more troops or complicate the situation further.

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