End of the Imaginary Durand Line

[Asim Aquil]

Pak lives of America and Japanese and Chinese aid. Why are you degrading us? We have seen 5 decades of war, by the mightiest of army's in the world. We are still alive and we will be back. Historically we have , shall again.

Good. And we've seen just 3 wars. Tells you much about whose got it made and whose got what.

[Ray]

The news below does not speak too well about this ethnicity pizzazz.

It is totally contrary to what we are being told about Pakistan.

SITUATIONER: Post-polls — win-win situation for ‘extremists’ in NWFP


By Iqbal Khattak

PESHAWAR: President General Pervez Musharraf chose Karachi to celebrate, what he called, the defeat of extremists in the recently held local elections. The defeated elements in Sindh and Punjab are the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) and the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N).

At least the PPP is not amongst extremists in Gen Musharraf’s books. Prior to the polls, he had called on voters to reject extremists in the polls.

If the president called the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) and the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F) extremists, why did liberals, like the Awami National Party (ANP) and the PPP-Sherpao join hands with ‘extremists’ in the NWFP in several districts to grab the top slots. During my stay in Karachi last week, several Muttahida Qaumi Movement leaders asked why the ANP had reached an agreement with its archrival, Jamaat-e-Islami, to grab the Peshawar district nazim slot.

“Why is the MQM in the government?” MQM leaders were asked. The answer was: “Now we know Pakistani politics. We understand that the MQM should avoid confrontation with the military.”

The MQM concern was understandable as its antagonism to the JI in Karachi was concerned. Many may not like the JI elsewhere in the country, but when it comes to the MQM in Karachi many people in the southern port city “thank” the JI for standing up against the ethnic MQM.

The comeback by the ANP in the NWFP in the local polls was a welcome sign for the MQM. But some newspaper offices in Peshawar ‘received tables from invisible hands on the eve of the first phase of polling showing how the nationalists and Bhutto’s comrades would perform and the prediction proved more or less what the invisible hands had forecasted’. By Wednesday afternoon, the ANP-JI negotiations were stalled and the nationalist part was yet to hold talks with the PPP. A senior ANP leader flying to Karachi the same flight that I was boarded, told me in mid-air that talks with the JI were producing no results as it was making “undue demands.”

Our plane had not yet touched down on the Jinnah International Airport on Wednesday evening, the news of an agreement between the ANP and the JI had already reached Karachi and the nationalist leader simply could not believe it.

The ANP is one party respected for its stand on principles, and losing the opportunity to win the nazim office in Peshawar was not something that the Bilour family was waiting for. Critics call the ANP-JI agreement a “family” decision as Haroon Bilour, son of ANP provincial president Bashir Bilour, was likely to be tipped as Peshawar nazim.

Practically, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal stands divided with the JI joining the ANP, the JUI-F joining the PPP and the PPP-Sherpao group in Peshawar and Charsadda districts. However, the MMA is intact on paper only.

Their differences made newspaper headlines since the MMA took power in the province late in 2002. But local polls damaged relations between the two parties to a level of almost no return.

Maulana Fazlur Rehman will be thinking about a new alliance for the 2007 general polls. He may not get more votes than he received in the 2002 polls under the MMA banner. Now, the alliance has been exposed to voters showing that the religious parties were using religion for political purpose.

But harm to the MMA government in Frontier is unlikely to come, according to analysts. The reason is a short time left to let the MMA expose fully until it goes back to voters in 2007.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-8-2005_pg7_37

[Asim Aquil]

So the real reasons come out. They played a political game to weaken JI/JUI, the strongest party in the union that forms MMA.

Qazi Hussein fought a vigorously for the top spot 10 years ago with the slogan "Qazi Araha Hai" (kinda sounds spooky). Right before the elections they had a split.

However the MMA games are far from over yet. They managed to play a good deceptive game today with the government today and after turning a few ministers to their side, they backed off on their word. The government was unable to form a majority.

However they only got debating rights over the "Farce" elections. Now we know the real reason why they are being called so "farce". They did split before, they'll split again. The timing couldn't be any better.

Btw, Ray, wrong thread?

[brownboi4eva]

Hey maybe we should export some BrahMos and send some new T-90's along with a squadron of LCA's when available to Afghanistan and ask for some bases in return. Then Pakistan will be in hot water.

[AbbasRazzaKhan]

Maybe we should start demanding their side. We have a higher number of Pashtuns than they have. Hey its OURS!

Why should our Pashtun Pakistanis live under YOUR Afghani rule? If you have a case goto the UN security council and ask them to pass a resolution to have a plebiscite. Let the people choose, not your Afghan Emperor of 1893.

Ask any pakhtun if he owes alleigence to his Pakhtunwa code or to Musharraf's new updates constitution. Then ask the baloch. You will be in shock. Your llies slammed your face.

[AbbasRazzaKhan]

Hey maybe we should export some BrahMos and send some new T-90's along with a squadron of LCA's when available to Afghanistan and ask for some bases in return. Then Pakistan will be in hot water.

Keep your weapons. Dont use Afghan for your games with pak. Otherwise you be no worse than pak that use Afghan for its games.

[AbbasRazzaKhan]

Good. And we've seen just 3 wars. Tells you much about whose got it made and whose got what.

47/48 Pakhtuns fought for you. 65 was after China fought India. 71 you lost half your country. Afghan face your Taliban, Afghan saw USSR, Afghan saw the brits, Afghan saw the Persia, Afgan now seeing the American. We are still alive because of our historical status of nation. Pak has no history and live of stolen land from Afghanistan and from India.

[Asim Aquil]

What you think we don't hang out with our Pathans?

Dude, my band's lead guitarist is a Pathan. I've pretty much grown up with Pathans. Many of them are overkill Pakistanis. You Mullah Pathans need to go find a consensus amongst your population first. Your Taliban style of living vs Pakistani urban lifestyle.

47/48 Pakhtuns fought for you. 65 was after China fought India. 71 you lost half your country. Afghan face your Taliban, Afghan saw USSR, Afghan saw the brits, Afghan saw the Persia, Afgan now seeing the American. We are still alive because of our historical status of nation. Pak has no history and live of stolen land from Afghanistan and from India.

From your own testament. Our Pakhtuns are willing to fight and die for Pakistan. We all are. While your Pakhtuns ran away as refugees to all over the world. Oh and most of them came to Pakistan. Most of them naturalized as Pakistanis. Most of them hold Pakistani passports now.

Heck these days the Hazaras are all pretty much becoming Pakistanis, very rapidly.

Go present your case to the Security council. We'll present ours. You aren't even united amongst yourself, go fight your own countrymen, thats what you do best. You do have a glorious past, but this generation, is all outta whack.

Oh and your last front, that you held, USSR, you wouldn't have made it without ISI help. From your name you sound like a Taliban, and what happened this time? Why weren't you able to hold off America? Oh yes, no Pakistani support this time.

Don't say our Taliban, if you're a Pashtun and an Afghani, they're more or less YOUR Taliban.

[lemontree]

Speaking frankly, I think those tribesmen screwd things up badly for us! Kashmir could have been solved diplomatically as Hari Singh was running out of time and options.
It was only after the invasion of those tribesmen that he fled to India and asked for support.
India played very smart and refused to provide support unless he'd sign Instrument of Accession which he did!

So thank you for screwing up.
How do you suggest we reply that favor?

The NWFP and Waziristan tribals that were used by Pakistan for the 1947 invasion were just foot soldiers. The brains behind it were Pak army GHQ, they are the ones who screwed up. Why blame the foot soldiers when the general was at fault!

[Ray]

Asim,

No, not the wrong thread.

Ethnicity.

[Ray]

Neo,

Afghanistan has the most powerful weapon to cripple the world - poppies!

It also rakes in good money.

And the best part is that none can stop it!

Poppies bring in money and money brings in power!

Right now heroin is the killing a large number and also making a large number zombies.

Maybe a cockeyed way of looking at it, but that is the reality.

[AbbasRazzaKhan]

Like it or not, a true Pakhtun owes all alleigence to Pakhtunwa a code betw us for us. It is your taliban because your army used it to control Afghanistan. Your minister tried ratifying the durand line with your own creation of taliban. It failed, why? Even brainwashed taliban pakhtuns first owe loyalty to Pakhtunwantan. pakhtuns in pak are loyal will be till the time pak dont hurt afghan. few realize that you have been for 20 years. when education and knowledge come to all pakhtun, the bravest shall stand to defend pakhtunwatan.

All afghan needs is 1 decade of stability and true boundry of afghan will be reestablished. For pak tip is try making afghan unstable. you still using taliban to do so. good luck. keep on try. because the minute you fail afghanistan unstable, pak will erode. we dealt with 100 years of power games by russia, america, england. your attempts are puny. we will rise!

[AbbasRazzaKhan]

The NWFP and Waziristan tribals that were used by Pakistan for the 1947 invasion were just foot soldiers. The brains behind it were Pak army GHQ, they are the ones who screwed up. Why blame the foot soldiers when the general was at fault!

i have spoken and acquired lot of knowledge about this. some pakhtun tribes were offered loot and some others were used in name of islam. where is your islam now pakistan?

[lemontree]

The attack was intiated by tribesmen, PA got involved!

Neo,
It was instigated by the British (they were very pro-Pakistan in those days and wanted the Silk-route to be in a "friendly Pakistans" hands). To get to the exact details you would have read military history. I have listed one source below so you will get some idea (though I am not aware of your understanding of the situation in this corner of J&K). Its not an Indian source.
http://www.weeklyholiday.net/060603/inret.html

On the eve of the termination of the British Indian Empire in 1947, a young Scot, William Brown, found himself in command of the Gilgit Scouts, the military unit responsible for the defence of the Indian frontier in the high Karakoram Mountains, where British India merged with Chinese Sinkiang. Just before independence, Brown?s commission was transferred from King George VI to the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir, Sir Hari Singh, who possessed some claims to this territory and wished to establish control over it after the British had gone. Brown was largely responsible for frustrating the Maharaja and ensuring in the end, that this region, Gilgit, Hunza, Nagir, Yasin, Punial, Ishkuman, and their neighbourhood, came to Pakistan rather than to India; and with Pakistan they still remain. How this came about is related by William Brown in The Gilgit Rebellion, a memoir which he compiled in 1948 or 1949 on the basis of his diary. It is not only a revealing account of one little known aspect of the Transfer of Power in India in 1947 but also a marvellous adventure story. William Brown died in 1984. In later years he never said much about his Gilgit adventures: this memoir survived among his papers.
Muslim tribesmen from all over the Gilgit Agency and its dependencies started to gather in Gilgit town. They clearly had two objectives. In the short term they wished to work out their anger against India by killing any Hindu and Sikh they could find, which in practice meant the shopkeepers in Gilgit bazaar. In the longer term, they wanted to join with the political malcontents in Gilgit and the adjacent mountain states in the destruction of the established structure of authority. Faced with the prospect both of political chaos and massive bloodshed, Major Brown had to make some hard decisions very rapidly.
Brown at this time was just 26 years old. His only British colleague, Captain Mathieson, equally youthful, was then several days? march away in Chilas. As his superiors came to appreciate, Brown faced no easy task. The first step, in which Brown probably followed events rather than directed them, was the confining of Ghansara Singh and his associates under house arrest by the men of the Gilgit Scouts, many of whom wished to go further and slaughter the Maharaja?s representative along with every other Hindu and Sikh in the Gilgit region. Brown managed to restrain his men, but in the end he felt that the situation demanded external political aid, which could only come in the circumstances from Pakistan. Having secured the offer of accession to Pakistan of the Rulers of both Hunza and Nagar (which, incidentally, Pakistan did not officially accept until March 1948, and only when the two Rulers had aroused Liaquat Ali Khan, the Pakistan Prime Minister, by telling him that unless they received some formal acknowledgement of their earlier offer, they would seriously consider joining the Soviet Union), Brown formally told his men on 3 November that the Gilgit Scouts now served the Government in Karachi. On the morning of 4 November the Pakistan flag was raised over his headquarters.

[lemontree]

That is not correct. Balochistan was under the Afghan Emperor Rahman Khan before 1893 Durrand line agreement, and is rightfully Afghan land today. Those days Russia and England make Afghanistan and IRan buffer betw themselves. Pakistan is another buffer entity made for cold war reasons. It has no right to cal it a country even. Punjab/Sindhi culture same as Gujrat/Punjab, and the rest is Afghani. It is very simple, the powers played and divided people and land unfairly. I dont know about any other but inshahallah we Afghanis will get our Pakhtunwa and Baloch back from Pak Punjab Army!!

Mu apologies, I checked Afghanistan controlled Balochistan in the 1800 century.