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Nouri Maliki reappointed as Iraqi prime minister

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  • #16
    Yes, but then when challenged in a private setting, he will give solemn assurances that he is an ally and enjoins the US to prosecute the Taliban and associated threats.

    Which in ground leaders minds IMO, allows them to carry out ground Ops against them which has been shown as succesfull, the moment he shows true prejustice against these Ops or night Ops will truely tell the tale. Will it happen or not or do you believe politics will take its coarse once again? The people wonder where their money is being spent. On Ops or political bullshit thats the question. Most (given the choice) dont even want to face this question. Time to face it for the amount that was spent (not to mention the lives in both ours and others) and the amount thats going to be spent. The people wonder Victory or Political bullshit rules the day? Its their sons and daughters and they have a right.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 20 Nov 10,, 03:25.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    • #17
      There are many well educated Muslims throughout the Region, from the Mediterranean Sea - right through & beyond - The Persian Gulf. While they show signs of intelligent life, the little gray cells working (Agatha Christie's - Hercule Poirot would say), there is no reasonable expectation that they will initiate a Regime change either politically or in theological form; let alone both simultaneously. Remember, the political and religious leadership is of their own blood making. Intellectually, yes - you are correct. They have the where-with-all to make those kinds of deductions; they could make them today. And, they probably do in the deep recesses of dark dingy corners where no one can hear them.

      *Then maybe they should learn the Seperation of both Church and State. It works in a modern world proven time and time again by many different cultures. Theirs is no different IMO.. You are not going to attack someone in the modern world by Theocracy without being destroyed in the end just because you tend to think your religion is above all others. Its not! And the men that interpit it against other cultures or people are the true criminals not religious men nor beliefs. We all belive in religion different as it may be. However our Religious leaders dont call upon the destruction of another people and or religion. While they do on a constant basis.
      Last edited by Dreadnought; 20 Nov 10,, 03:23.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

      Comment


      • #18
        BBC News - Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki delays unveiling new government

        Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki is due to unveil a partial list of cabinet ministers, his spokesman says, amid reports of ongoing disputes among Iraq's rival political factions
        .

        It will be a delicate balancing act for Mr Maliki, who has to reconcile various Shia groups, as well as the Sunnis and the Kurds, to put together government of national unity that has at least a chance of being able to work together, says the BBC's Gabriel Gatehouse in Baghdad.

        But the real test of this coalition will come when these newly-appointed ministers get down to work, and start to tackle the country's many problems - from neglected and crumbling infrastructure to continuing violence and instability, our correspondent says.
        squabbling politicans, whats new, but these early signs are hardly surprising, in the short term this seems unlikely to work, perhaps that is merely stating the blatantly obvious...

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        • #19
          tantalus Reply

          "...in the short term this seems unlikely to work, perhaps that is merely stating the blatantly obvious..."

          Not enough statesmen. Too many politicians. They've their chance. That chance is very legitimate and provided at the cost of much blood spent by outsiders to provide that possibility.

          Do you remember this-

          Unity Through Autonomy In Iraq-May 1, 2006 Biden/Gelb NYT
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • #20
            S-2, Tantalus, et al,

            I don't recall this, but it is interesting.
            Originally posted by S-2 View Post
            "...in the short term this seems unlikely to work, perhaps that is merely stating the blatantly obvious..."

            Do you remember this-
            (COMMENT)
            Originally posted by JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR. and LESLIE H. GELB, May 1, 2006
            Now the Bush administration, despite its profound strategic misjudgments in Iraq, has a similar opportunity. To seize it, however, America must get beyond the present false choice between "staying the course" and "bringing the troops home now" and choose a third way that would wind down our military presence responsibly while preventing chaos and preserving our key security goals.

            This is the challenge of the "Third Way:"
            • wind down our military presence
            • preventing chaos
            • preserving our key security goals


            How do we do that?

            In the four (4) years since that statement was made, look at what has happened and how.

            I agree that it sounded both logical (valid and sound), yet - to me - it resembled "luck" that it didn't turn-out worse. Politically, it was a hard landing with sever damage done. At times, it was chaotic.

            Who can forget Easter 2008, when the Embassy turned into a "Bed & Breakfast" with the staff taking cover from one of the most intense rocket barrages (lasting over a month) of the decade; compliments of Moqtodar al-Sadr. Yet today, from his reach out of Iran, he settled the government impasse and furthered the Regime of Nouri al-Maliki.

            We are very lucky that Iraq is only under Iranian influence; and not control.

            Sad --- really!

            Again, we had our best minds focused on this, and still wound-up with the short end of the stick. I'm not even sure what we've learned from this.

            Most Respectfully,
            R

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            • #21
              I recall reading somewhere yesterday that Maliki doesn't have the political juice to request a stay-behind presence of even U.S. advisors. We won't stay without a formal request by the Iraqi government. If true, that means we'll be gone-lock, stock and barrel.

              My preference has always been partition into Shiastan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan with one or two U.S. AFBs located in Kurdistan. That's a long, long way from happening nor can even be a consideration unless, obviously, the country fractured AND the KRG took on the PKK successfully.

              My guess, however, is should Iraq fracture, the PKK would be the least of the KRG's immediate worries. It needs, of course, to be foremost now whether Iraq fractures or otherwise. Relations between the KRG and Turkey need to be good in every case. That can only happen with a defeated PKK in Kurdistan. It's not an easy choice for the KRG but, still, correct.
              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

              Comment


              • #22
                One hears so many things. Once it's US winding down its military presence in Turkey with an eye toward relocating in Kurdistan. How is that possible unless Iraq fractures? And wouldn't aim like that be a sign that US doesn't consider a Iraq as it is now a viable nation? This is all probably analyst speculation.

                More to the point, I heard a report over the weekend that the Iraqi gov't had dropped its ban on the participation in the assembly of three Sunni politicians and that the sr. Sunni leadership was pleased. This may signal the willingness of the Shia faction to push for greater unity. Perhaps you all know more about this development.
                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                • #23
                  S-2, JAD_333, et al,

                  It is important to note that the CJCS is suggesting that the GOI consider a follow-on security agreement; I suppose under Title 22 Authority.
                  Originally posted by S-2
                  I recall reading somewhere yesterday that Maliki doesn't have the political juice to request a stay-behind presence of even U.S. advisors. We won't stay without a formal request by the Iraqi government. If true, that means we'll be gone-lock, stock and barrel.
                  (COMMENT)

                  You are probably right. The majority of US Military will return to CONUS if the GOI does not make some formal arrangement.

                  Having said that, it is important look at two aspects.
                  • Prior to the 2003 Invasion, the level of indigenous discontent under Saddam Hussein's government generated about 12-to-15 internal security incidents per day. The current level of violence is approaching 10-to-13 security incidents.
                  • There is no question that the CJCS is publically giving his praise for the ISF and their achievements in security. And there have been, even most recently, some examples cited. There were 12 out of 15 VBIEDs intercepted and neutralized.
                    Originally posted by Example Item:
                  • What is not emphasized in this article is that the successful intervention was based on intelligence provided by the US, and that the interventions would not likely have occurred without that vital intelligence having been provided. This is a question of capacity and whether the ISF actually has it or can reasonably be expected to develop it in time to protect itself.


                  The question is what will happen in a post-US Exit environment? Will Iraq internal security descend into chaos?
                  Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                  One hears so many things. Once it's US winding down its military presence in Turkey with an eye toward relocating in Kurdistan. How is that possible unless Iraq fractures? And wouldn't aim like that be a sign that US doesn't consider a Iraq as it is now a viable nation? This is all probably analyst speculation.
                  (COMMENT)

                  I agree, that this might have been wishful thinking.

                  This might have been a possible consideration when a semi-permanent military basing structure was considered feasible in Iraq. But it is unlikely that the US will be granted anything of the sort. The US will gradually lose, what little influence it has, with the GOI. What will remain will probably become much more expensive to maintain than any equivalent military station anywhere in the world. Just as the Embassy, will become th Alamo, a fortified position in a hostile land.

                  Most Respectfully,
                  R
                  Last edited by RoccoR; 22 Dec 10,, 02:09.

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                  • #24
                    Kurdistan Braces For America's Departure

                    This is about to go critical folks. Ol' S-2 has been saying a volcano lies dormant over Kurdish ethnic aspirations. Wait until we hit the trail. Just now America is the ONLY force for justice in the region. Literally everybody else has a deeply self-interested agenda that they'll be unfolding lickity-split-

                    Iraq's North Seen as Next Trouble Spot - WSJ.com Dec. 23, 2010

                    This isn't going to be pretty.
                    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      S-2, et al,

                      This is why Jalal Talabani was made President.
                      Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                      This is about to go critical folks. Ol' S-2 has been saying a volcano lies dormant over Kurdish ethnic aspirations. Wait until we hit the trail. Just now America is the ONLY force for justice in the region. Literally everybody else has a deeply self-interested agenda that they'll be unfolding lickity-split-

                      Iraq's North Seen as Next Trouble Spot - WSJ.com Dec. 23, 2010

                      This isn't going to be pretty.
                      (COMMENT)

                      Neither the Central Government of Iraq or the Turkish Republic is thrilled with the idea of a Kurdish State; but for slightly different reasons.

                      I don't think there will be an outbreak just yet, as long as the Kurds don't unilaterally declare independence. But there are strong separatists movements.

                      The fear of a civil war was always a concern; but, it was the risk that Washington took when it granted sovereignty.

                      Most Respectfully,
                      R

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        RoccoR Reply

                        "This is why Jalal Talabani was made President."

                        Window dressing.

                        "Neither the Central Government of Iraq or the Turkish Republic is thrilled with the idea of a Kurdish State; but for slightly different reasons."

                        That's obvious and understood.

                        "I don't think there will be an outbreak just yet, as long as the Kurds don't unilaterally declare independence. But there are strong separatists movements."
                        Remember,

                        "...volcano lies dormant..."

                        Should dissolution occur, it'll unfold before us. The crystal won't be shattered overnight.

                        "The fear of a civil war was always a concern; but, it was the risk that Washington took when it granted sovereignty."

                        It's a risk incurred by Iraq when accepting sovereign authority. It's a risk incurred by any multi-ethnic/multi-cultural society if integrative and representative governance is the ultimate objective.

                        Thanks.
                        "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                        "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          S-2, et al,

                          Yes, I believe the volcano can erupt at any moment.
                          Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                          "...volcano lies dormant..."

                          Should dissolution occur, it'll unfold before us. The crystal won't be shattered overnight.

                          It's a risk incurred by Iraq when accepting sovereign authority. It's a risk incurred by any multi-ethnic/multi-cultural society if integrative and representative governance is the ultimate objective.
                          (COMMENT)

                          But I believe the ignition will be a result of a cascade failure, which the US Government will claim as "unforeseeable."
                          When Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki unveiled his new cabinet on Dec. 21, Sadr's lieutenants were awarded eight of the 29 positions announced a reflection of the fact that Maliki would not be premier without Sadr's support.

                          Read more: Iraq: Preparing for the Return of Moqtada al-Sadr - TIME

                          As al-Sadr gains more and more power and influence, we will meet a critical mass.

                          Remember Article 2 of the (US Backed and Promoted) Iraqi Constitution.

                          Most Respectfully,
                          R

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            RoccoR Reply

                            "But I believe the ignition will be a result of a cascade failure, which the US Government will claim as 'unforeseeable.'"

                            What you predict the U.S. might claim is yet unknown and not particularly relevant even should it prove true.

                            "As al-Sadr gains more and more power and influence, we will meet a critical mass..."

                            That's possible. He's one important element to that. Others have a say.

                            Article 2:

                            First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

                            A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.
                            B. No law that contradicts the principles of democracy may be established.
                            C. No law that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms stipulated in this constitution may be established.

                            Second: This Constitution guarantees the Islamic identity of the majority of the Iraqi people and guarantees the full religious rights of all individuals to freedom of religious belief and practice such as Christians, Yazedis, and Mandi Sabeans.


                            Each competing entity must weigh the risks/benefits of what partition may hold. Each, therefore, must also weigh the risks/benefits of a united Iraq. Nothing new here, if painful nonetheless.

                            In my humble view, it's the process of earning the right becoming a sovereign, united nation. Not all deserve to be called such and there's a price to paid in crossing that bridge to true collective unity.

                            We've provided Iraqis the opportunity to determine their path. Now they'll do so-for better or worse.
                            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              S-2, et al,
                              Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                              What you predict the U.S. might claim is yet unknown and not particularly relevant even should it prove true.

                              Each competing entity must weigh the risks/benefits of what partition may hold. Each, therefore, must also weigh the risks/benefits of a united Iraq. Nothing new here, if painful nonetheless.

                              In my humble view, it's the process of earning the right becoming a sovereign, united nation. Not all deserve to be called such and there's a price to paid in crossing that bridge to true collective unity.

                              We've provided Iraqis the opportunity to determine their path. Now they'll do so-for better or worse.
                              (COMMENT)

                              Ref Links:
                              When Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki unveiled his new cabinet on Dec. 21, Sadr's lieutenants were awarded eight of the 29 positions announced a reflection of the fact that Maliki would not be premier without Sadr's support.

                              Like I said before, individually, just as Washington often depicts, none of the problems I have cited about Iraq are fatal. But the accumulative effect continues and is unmistakeable; having a great chance of creating a cascade effect.
                              The latest exodus follows a massacre led by al-Qaida at a Chaldean Catholic church in central Baghdad on 31 October, which left about 60 people dead, almost 100 maimed and an already apprehensive community terrified. Since then, the terrorist group has targeted Christians in their homes, including family members of those who survived the attack.

                              SOURCE:
                              Others see a slightly different or more likely case as an indicator.
                              Originally posted by BAGHDAD, Dec. 23 (UPI)
                              -- Iran's "Special Groups," Tehran's paramilitary proxies in Iraq, are likely to flourish under the new Shiite-dominated coalition government being formed by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Iran's choice to rule in Baghdad.

                              SOURCE:

                              More and more, people are beginning to be concerned about the very open influence both Moqtadar al-Sadr and the Iranians have and projected to get.

                              Most Respectfully,
                              R

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                RoccoR Reply

                                "More and more, people are beginning to be concerned about the very open influence both Moqtadar al-Sadr and the Iranians have and projected to get"

                                That's been a long-standing concern.

                                Everything that's been posted so far by you, myself, and others WRT this topic is almost fore-ordained.

                                I repeat- being called a nation is more than simply borders, a constitution and the usual trappings of governance. Like too much of the middle east, Iraq is a a tribal-based society that has a western facade reaching back to colonial decisions imposed over the top. There has, is, or will be a litmus test with each to determine if that facade reaches at all deeper into the social fabric-and to what extent.

                                America had its own civil war and, from my view, was a critical component in defining our nation. We're not the only such nation. There'll yet be others. Maybe Iraq. Maybe Afghanistan. Maybe, too, Pakistan.

                                Who knows?
                                "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                                "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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