Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

[Triple C]

If it was simply about not becoming a casualty, then we'd be best off just not going to war, and then we could declare success.

That's going to be quote on my facebook.

[Shek]

That's going to be quote on my facebook.

The inspiration for that is from this excerpt from Thomas Ricks' Fiasco where he describes the road to Abu Ghraib from an internal Army perspective:

Excerpt from Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, Thomas E. Ricks, pgs. 197-8

The insurgency didn’t begin with an announcement or a major event. Rather, it was like a change in the weather. “In three towns that summer – Hit, Fallujah, and Khaldiya – I would hear an Iraqi proverb repeated over and over as the occupation lurched on, violence of all kinds escalated, and more Iraqis were killed,” Anthony Shadid later wrote. “‘The mud is getting wetter,’ people said. Things are getting worse, it meant.”

As the Iraqi mud moistened, the American gloves were removed. The US military escalation occurred consciously. On August 4, 2003, US authorities reopened the prison west of Baghdad call Abu Ghraib, which was notorious since it had been used to punish the enemies of Saddam Hussein. And at around two o’clock on the morning on[sic] August 14, Captain William Ponce, an officer in the Human Intelligence Effects Coordination cell at Sanchez’s headquarters, sent out a memo to subordinate commands. “The gloves are coming off regarding these detainees,” he told them. His e-mail, and the responses it provoked from members of the Army intelligence community across Iraq, are sadly illuminating about the mind-set of the US military during this period. They suggest that the US military was moving in the direction of institutionalized abuse.

Captain Ponce stated that Colonel Steve Boltz, the second highest ranking military intelligence officer in Iraq, “has made it clear that we want these individuals broken” – intelligence jargon for getting someone to abandon his cover and relate the truth as he knows it. Ponce then went on to wave the bloody shirt, a move that would raise eyebrows among some of his e-mail’s recipients. “Casualties are mounting and we need to start gathering info to help protect our fellow soldiers from any attacks,” he wrote. So, Ponce ordered them, “Provide interrogation techniques ‘wish list’ by 17 AUG 03.”

Some of the responses to his solicitation were enthusiastic. “I spent several months in Afghanistan interrogating the Taliban and al Qaeda,” a soldier attached to the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, operating in western Iraq, responded just fourteen hours later, according to the time stamp on his e-mail. “I firmly agree that the gloves need to come off.” With clinical precision, he recommended that permitting “open-handed facial slaps from a distance of no more than about two feet and back-handed blows to the midsection from a distance of no more than about 18 inches . . . I also believe that this should be a minimum baseline.” He also reported that “fear of dogs and snakes appear to work nicely.”

The 4th Infantry Division’s intelligence operation responded three days later with suggestions that captives be hit with closed fists and also subjected to “low-voltage electrocution.”

But not everyone was so sanguine as those two units’ operations. “We need to take a deep breath and remember who we are,” cautioned a major with the 501st Military Intelligence Battalion, which supported the operations of the 1st Armored Division in Iraq. (The officer’s name was deleted in official documents released by the Army, as were those of other writers in this e-mail exchange.) “It comes down to standards of right and wrong – something we cannot just put aside when we find it inconvenient, any more than we can declare that we will ‘take no prisoners’ and therefore shoot those who surrender to us simply because we find prisoners inconvenient.” This officer also took issue with the reference to rising US casualties. “We have taken casualties in every war we have ever fought – that is part of the very nature of war . . . That in no way justifies letting go of our standards . . . Casualties are part of war – if you cannot take casualties you cannot engage in war. Period.” The “BOTTOM LINE,” he wrote emphatically in conclusion, was, “We are American soldiers, heirs of a long tradition of staying on the high ground. We need to stay there.” His signature block ended with a reference to “Psalm 24: 3-8,” which begins with the admonition, “Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? Or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart.” But this lucid and passionate response was a voice in the wilderness. The major was arguing against embarking on a course that the Army had already chosen to take.

[S-3]

NO facts here - only Fox Misrepresentations

Ignore the subject for a minute and consider Fox's version of "real journalism". Its supposed to be bringing us the facts, no? They fail.

Given how Fox deliberately misrepresented the facts with their article's title, why on earth should anyone believe their account has the pertinent facts necessary to understand this story?

In just this story alone, Fox has already lied to you once. Shame on them.

How could they not lie again to back up their first lie? If we continue to believe they can be credible - then shame on us.

Wait for the military's version of this before ever jumping to believe Fox. They have less credibility today than the national enquirer, which used to be the standard for false reporting. (They too never lost ratings for lying).

(First post is testing what typing in a more accurate title will do, since that option looks to be available?)

[S-3]

Gentlemen,

Clearly the person involved isn't a nice guy. However, our fight is to protect our homeland and values, and so transgressing our own values is something we should demand that our commanders uphold, even if it pales in comparison to individuals who behave in ways that are antithetical to our own values. Rather than stoop to their level in some moral relativistic manner, let's maintain our dignity. Let the commander do his job - unless you can prove that he's acting in bad faith, let the due process of the UCMJ take its course, and it will be a victory for our values.

Bravo.

[LMA]

Here's a youtube clip of a Fox iinterview with McCabe's attorney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCUwt...layer_embedded

An article with quotes from 2 of the three SEAL's attorneys...

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/58016


And there is a defense fund set up you can google that if interested.

[S2]

S-3 Reply

From one staff officer to another, welcome. Could you also swing by the member intro board at the top of the home page and tell us a bit about yourself.

Many thanks if so. The pox upon thee if not.:)