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  • Yup, folks have been told for months before August to get out.

    And again, if you don't register with the embassy or a consulate they won't know you are there.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
      Yup, folks have been told for months before August to get out.

      And again, if you don't register with the embassy or a consulate they won't know you are there.
      Stupid human beings. You , me, nor the US Government have no obligation to them when they choose to act stupid against sound advice...

      Comment


      • Watchdog finds no misconduct in mistaken Afghan airstrike (apnews.com)

        WASHINGTON (AP) — An independent Pentagon review has concluded that the U.S. drone strike that killed innocent Kabul civilians and children in the final days of the Afghanistan war was not caused by misconduct or negligence, and it doesn’t recommend any disciplinary action.

        The review, done by Air Force Lt. Gen. Sami Said, found there were breakdowns in communication and in the process of identifying and confirming the target of the bombing. Said concluded that the mistaken strike happened despite prudent measures to prevent civilian deaths.

        “I found that given the information they had and the analysis that they did — I understand they reached the wrong conclusion, but ... was it reasonable to conclude what they concluded based on what they had? It was not unreasonable. It just turned out to be incorrect,” Said said. He is the inspector general of the Air Force and is considered independent as he had no direct connection to Afghanistan operations.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

        Comment


        • An update on the continued evacuation of Afghans from Afghanistan.


          https://www.usnews.com/news/politics...i87ycWjnwZNlvU



          EXPLAINER: What Happened to the Afghanistan Evacuation?


          The evacuation of American citizens and others from Afghanistan didn’t end with the departure of the last U.S. troops on Aug. 30.

          By Associated Press
          |
          Nov. 26, 2021, at 8:38 a.m.
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          EXPLAINER: What Happened to the Afghanistan Evacuation?

          WASHINGTON (AP) — The evacuation of American citizens and others from Afghanistan didn’t end with the departure of the last U.S. troops on Aug. 30, but it did slow to a trickle. The U.S. airlifted 124,000 people from Kabul, the capital, over about six weeks as the American-backed Afghan military and government fell to the Taliban.

          Since then, several thousand people have managed to get out, mostly on flights arranged by the State Department or private groups and individuals. That includes some high-profile efforts, such as the Nov. 18 flight chartered by reality TV star Kim Kardashian West for members of Afghanistan’s women’s youth development soccer team and their families.

          Most of the departures, however, have been carried out quietly for remaining American citizens, U.S. residents or people with the special immigrant visa for those who worked as military interpreters or otherwise aided the 20-year, Washington-led war effort. But people involved in these efforts are calling on the United States and other nations to do more to help people escape Taliban rule.

          A look at the current situation:

          WHO GOT OUT DURING THE INITIAL PHASE AND WHERE DID THEY GO?

          As the Afghan government and military fell to the Taliban in August, the U.S. hastily sought to evacuate as many people as possible through the main airport in Kabul. It was a chaotic scene because the collapse happened more quickly than the U.S. government anticipated. The evacuation, mostly on military cargo jets, prioritized American citizens, U.S. permanent residents, special visa holders or those whose work would likely make them eligible, along with their families. The flights also carried people who were considered particularly vulnerable to Taliban retribution or their harsh rule, including journalists and human rights advocates.

          The 124,000 people evacuated in the initial phases included about 6,000 American citizens. Some Afghans from these flights have been temporarily moved to at least eight countries that agreed to take people who may ultimately reach the U.S. as refugees or will be resettled elsewhere. The U.S. has so far admitted 73,000 Afghans from this initial phase. They will eventually move to communities around the United States with assistance from private organizations. About 40,000 are still being housed at seven military bases in the U.S. as they complete immigration and medical processing and await resettlement.

          ___

          WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE?

          In September, the Taliban started to allow some charter flights to leave the country with American citizens, U.S. residents and visa holders, as well as people from other countries and Afghans with proper travel documents. Private organizations with names such as Allied Airlift 21 and Task Force Argo have reported getting charter flights out with hundreds of people. The State Department has chartered flights and says it has evacuated 435 American citizens and 325 people with permanent U.S. resident status — green card holders — since Aug. 30.


          People involved in these efforts estimate the total number evacuated at perhaps about 8,000. It's limited for many reasons, including the fact that people are in hiding or have destroyed or lost personal documents when the Taliban took. Applying for an immigrant visa to the U.S. at this point is difficult because the the American Embassy has closed; Qatar recently agreed to handle some consular services for the U.S.

          ___


          ARE THERE STILL AMERICAN CITIZENS IN AFGHANISTAN?

          Yes.

          Biden administration officials said this month they believe several hundred remain in Afghanistan. The State Department continues to offer passage out to any citizens or people with permanent resident status. As the U.S. military evacuation ended, Secretary of State Antony Blinken put the number of Americans left behind at under 200, “likely closer to 100." The number flown out by the State Department since then is more than four times that amount.

          Blinken has since said the department is in contact with American citizens who have indicated they want to leave. But private organizations such as Task Force Argo and others say they have heard from dozens of people in Afghanistan who have yet to be contacted by the U.S. government. It's a hazy picture for good reason. Americans in Afghanistan were not required to register with the embassy and some people with U.S. citizenship or green cards may be hiding from the Taliban. Blinken also has said some people do not want to leave because they do not want to leave behind family members.

          ___

          WHAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LEAVE?

          Human rights groups and organizations working to help Afghans say there are at least tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan who could face reprisals and need to escape. That includes people who worked for the U.S.-backed government or military but also members of ethnic minorities or people who are LGBTQ. Some have fled on their own to other countries and may be able to apply to get to the U.S. elsewhere as refugees.

          AfghanEvac is a coalition of more than 100 organizations working to help people get out of Afghanistan country; many of those groups were started by military veterans. Representatives from AfghanEvac recently met with Blinken as part of a campaign to persuade the U.S. to step up the evacuation effort.

          Groups are also enlisting help from Congress, hoping to expand the categories of people who would qualify for the special immigrant visa, perhaps to include those who served in elite Afghan military units. Some are also seeking more financial support from the U.S. government. “We need some help, we really do,” Scott Mann, founder of Task Force Pineapple, which aims to connect people in Afghanistan with flights out of the country. “This is a problem of scale and it is outpacing us quickly.”

          Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Trump calls Milley a 'fucking idiot' over Afghanistan withdrawal

            Former President Trump on Saturday called Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley a "f---ing idiot" during an event at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday while talking about the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan.

            In video shared by Florida attorney Ron Filipkowski on Saturday, Trump could be seen addressing a crowd and speaking about the military planes that were left behind when the U.S. pulled forces out of Afghanistan. Trump claimed that Milley told him that leaving the planes behind was cheaper than moving them to another country.

            "That's when I realized he was a fucking idiot," Trump said, eliciting a wave of laughter from the crowd.

            Trump had apparently suggested filling the aircrafts with "a half a tank of gas" and moving them to Pakistan or back to the U.S.

            As Business Insider reported, Trump was speaking at an event for Turning Point Action, a conservative organization founded by Charlie Kirk.

            Shortly after the fall of Kabul in August, the Taliban seized billion of dollars in U.S. weapons, including Black Hawk helicopters and an A-29 Super Tucano attack aircraft. The aircraft are virtually inoperable without the proper training, though they did provide ample opportunity for the Taliban to create propaganda.

            Trump has routinely criticized Milley in the past, calling him a "dumbass" in September after it was reported that the general had called his Chinese counterpart in order to reassure him that Trump did not have plans to attack China.

            During congressional testimony in September on the U.S. withdrawal, Milley acknowledged that he personally thought it would have been better to leave about 2,500 U.S. troops in Afghanistan while seeking a peace agreement between the Afghan government and the Taliban. However, Milley also said that military generals unanimously agreed to recommend that the U.S. stick to the Aug. 31 withdrawal deadline for the evacuation.
            _________

            Somebody's a fucking idiot all right...
            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

            Comment


            • Who knew that the doctrine & strategy taught in high school classes at the New York Military Academy were so much better than that taught at Princeton ROTC, The Armor Officer Basic Course, the Infantry Officer Advanced Course, the Combined Arms & Services Staff School, the U.S. Naval War College & the MIT Seminar XXI National Security Studies Program!

              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                Who knew that the doctrine & strategy taught in high school classes at the New York Military Academy were so much better than that taught at Princeton ROTC, The Armor Officer Basic Course, the Infantry Officer Advanced Course, the Combined Arms & Services Staff School, the U.S. Naval War College & the MIT Seminar XXI National Security Studies Program!
                You're assuming he paid attention which I can assure you he didn't and wouldn't.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                  You're assuming he paid attention which I can assure you he didn't and wouldn't.
                  With that Fat Nixon I assume nothing....
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • The Paks are getting back from the Taliban exactly what they dished out to others



                    Early on Sushant quotes from a book written by a former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef

                    Pakistan, which plays a key role in Asia, is so famous for treachery that it is said they can get milk from a bull.

                    They have two tongues in one mouth, and two faces on one head so they can speak everybody’s language; they use everybody, deceive everybody.

                    They deceive the Arabs under the guise of Islamic nuclear power, saying that they are defending Islam and Islamic countries.

                    They milk America and Europe in the alliance against terrorism, and they have been deceiving Pakistani and other Muslims around the world in the name of the Kashmir jihad.

                    But behind the curtain, they have been betraying everyone.

                    Their Islam and their jihad were to destroy their neighbouring Islamic country together with the infdels.

                    They handed over their airports to the Americans so they could kill Muslims and destroy an Islamic country.

                    Their loyalty to the Arabs is so great that they sold diplomats, journalists and mujahedeen for dollars. Like animals.

                    God knows whether they will ever use their nuclear bomb to defend Muslims and Islam.

                    They might use their weapons—as they have used everything else—against Muslims.
                    There is no better description i have seen to date
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Dec 21,, 19:08.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Victory has a 1000 fathers while Defeat is an orphan.

                      It really doesn't matter who decided what and when was what done. We've lost Afghanistan the second we decided can't bleed Afghanistan into submission. Insurgency/guerrilla warfare has only one strategy - to outbleed the occupier. The counter strategy is obvious - then bleed them white. Every man, woman, child, dog. If you're willing to bleed them all, you will see how fast all will be coming to your side if only not to be bled.

                      But we are not Nazis. We don't want to stomache that kind of war. The Taliban does.
                      I'd say we're not Romans. This is how they dealt with revolt:
                      Josephus claims that 1.1 million people were killed during the siege, of which a majority were Jewish. Josephus attributes this to the celebration of Passover which he uses as rationale for the vast number of people present among the death toll.[24] The revolt had not deterred pilgrims from Jewish diaspora communities from trekking to Jerusalem to visit the Temple at Passover, and a large number became trapped in the city and perished during the siege.[25] Armed rebels, as well as the frail citizens, were put to death. All of Jerusalem's remaining citizens became Roman prisoners. After the Romans killed the armed and elder people, 97,000 were still enslaved, including Simon bar Giora and John of Giscala.[26] Of the 97,000, thousands were forced to become gladiators and eventually expired in the arena.
                      And we're apparently not Greeks either:
                      It was the wealthiest city under the sun and the private houses had been filled for a long time with riches of every kind. The Macedonians rushed into it, killing all the men and plundering the houses, which were numerous and full of furniture and precious objects of every kind. Here much silver was carried off and no little gold, and many expensive dresses, embroidered with purple or with gold, fell as prizes to the victors.

                      But the great royal palace, famed throughout the inhabited world, had been condemned to the indignity of total destruction. The Macedonians spent the whole day in pillage but still could not satisfy their inexhaustible greed. [...] As for the women, they dragged them away forcibly with their jewels, treating as slaves the whole group of captives. As Persepolis had surpassed all other cities in prosperity, so she now exceeded them in misfortune.
                      What the Taliban did to win power is something they couldn't have done against a Roman or Greek general from antiquity. But that's because the men would all have been killed from the git-go, after the US invasion.

                      Comment


                      • You were dealing with a proxy war not an insurgency. If you fight a proxy war the way you do an insurgency it won't work.

                        You were unwilling to accept it was a proxy war.

                        No need to go Mongol.

                        This is why full spectrum, full tech lost to zero spectrum and ideology.

                        Wonder what lessons the Chinese will draw from this experience.

                        They will stand up some Counter Insurgency regiments.

                        Why they expect to fare better will be interesting to understand
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Dec 21,, 10:01.

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                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          No need to go Mongol.
                          You're missing the friggin point. The other side is willing to outbleed you. The easiest and most obvious counter is to bleed them dry.
                          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 19 Dec 21,, 08:23.
                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            You're missing the friggin point. The other side is willing to outbleed you. The easiest and most obvious counter is to bleed them dry.
                            Not an option and never was.

                            What is the point of suggesting something you cannot do ?

                            You figured out a way to defeat the Soviets who were more brutal. This same method was deployed against you.

                            Back then the wrong people were armed. Same happened again.

                            Majority of Afghans are moderate. These were the people to stick with.

                            But the Paks did not want to work with them because moderates are nationalists.

                            So they selected the extremists to empower because the extremists would not threaten their border.

                            Extremist ideology transcends borders.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Dec 21,, 11:52.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              Not an option and never was.
                              Did we live though those times together? Did you forget the anger the Americans felt? Did you not remember the cry for vengence when they wrongly believed 50,000 died at the WTC. Were you not aware that nukes were considered? Against Pakistan if they stood in our way? It was very much an option. Pakistan chickened out and the Americans figured they could do the same job with thermobarics.

                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              You figured out a way to defeat the Soviets who were more brutal. This same method was deployed against you.
                              Let's get something straight. We defeated the Soviets because oil prices crashed which resulted in us outspending them. They left Afghanistan not because they lost the will to fight. They were beating the Mujahadeed so bad that ther northern warlords switched sides. The Soviets left Afghanistan because they can no longer afford it.

                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              Majority of Afghans are moderate. These were the people to stick with.

                              But the Paks did not want to work with them because moderates are nationalists.

                              So they selected the extremists to empower because the extremists would not threaten their border.

                              Extremist ideology transcends borders.
                              So what? Ask yourself. What do we gain by keeping Afghanistan? Every foreign Empire left Afghanistan for a reason. There is zero to gain there. Afghanistan is an invasion route to India, Iran, and Central Asia. Not even a trade route. There are a lot more easier roads to carry trade. Afghanistan is bandit country and bandits could be much cheaper control by punitive expeditions than by occupation.

                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                Did we live though those times together? Did you forget the anger the Americans felt? Did you not remember the cry for vengence when they wrongly believed 50,000 died at the WTC. Were you not aware that nukes were considered? Against Pakistan if they stood in our way? It was very much an option. Pakistan chickened out and the Americans figured they could do the same job with thermobarics.
                                Yeah we did. I lived through it in NYC.

                                All of these things happened.

                                Where was the Mongol ? you admit ROE's did not allow for it.

                                Keeping collateral damage to a minimum otherwise the HR people in your countries will agitate to bring you back.

                                So saying you could win with it isn't an option. There were other ways to win but those could not be taken.

                                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                Let's get something straight. We defeated the Soviets because oil prices crashed which resulted in us outspending them. They left Afghanistan not because they lost the will to fight. They were beating the Mujahadeed so bad that ther northern warlords switched sides. The Soviets left Afghanistan because they can no longer afford it.
                                The Soviets won tactically. Not strategically. Same story here.

                                Does it matter how many times you beat them only for them to return after you leave.

                                We're all in the same boat and loathing a repeat of the 1996-2001 period.

                                I want to believe those twenty years amounted to something.

                                Funny how both our predictions ended up wrong on this one

                                You said civil war and i argued the govt would hold so long as it got funding from abroad.

                                There is no civil war at least not yet and the govt folded like a house of cards.

                                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                So what? Ask yourself. What do we gain by keeping Afghanistan? Every foreign Empire left Afghanistan for a reason. There is zero to gain there. Afghanistan is an invasion route to India, Iran, and Central Asia. Not even a trade route. There are a lot more easier roads to carry trade. Afghanistan is bandit country and bandits could be much cheaper control by punitive expeditions than by occupation.
                                Don't have to keep it. But you want to leave the place different than how you found it.

                                When the Viets left Cambodia the Khmer Rouge never returned.

                                Unless you isolated the battlefield it was never going to happen. It drags on for decades.

                                I'm sure the generals knew what to do. Getting the permission to do it was another question.

                                What lessons are the Chinese drawing from this experience ? First two gulf wars taught them you needed high tech and speed.

                                In this theater they will learn that there is a limit to how much tech a battlefield can absorb. And even then the results aren't guaranteed.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Dec 21,, 12:19.

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