Collapse in Afghanistan

[Albany Rifles]

If TB cannot prevent attacks when you are in country how good are they going to be at preventing attacks out of country against our interests ?

Let's be clear. They will give sanctuary to any one and every one that fought along side them for the last twenty years.

No pashuntunwali needed here. Those who fought along side the TB are their allies. Simple.

Well, do we know how many got stopped by the Taliban?

And ISIS-K & Taliban are sworn enemies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISIL%E...liban_conflict

How is the Afghan army expected to maintain equipment in a battle ready state without those contractors ]

We yanked the contractors when we saw the National level government not even providing basic support for their units. Widespread reporting of platoon size units with little to no ammo and barely enough food to last for long and poor quality at that. The Afghanistan IG told DOD it was a lost cause so recommended start pulling them out.

The ANA had a LOT of very capable units...but even the best unit becomes ineffective withut resupply. And resupply was NOT a contractor responsibility.

[Double Edge]

Amrullah's interview with Fox from Aug 28

https://youtu.be/PHO-gKYZhM4

Q. Amrulah Saleh is with us right now. You're in the northern part of Afghanistan. I understand you have a very strong resistance that is growing by the day. I have reports on the ground that i've confirmed that you are leading the country. You're the de facto resistance leader of the country in your rightful place.

Considering your President left and my question is what would you need to ensure the safety of our Afghan allies, innocent Afghan citizens and Americans that will be left behind because i want my fellow Americans brought home safely ?

A. We need two three things to be done and and these are doable things and it will save the lives of Americans and it will most likely save the lives of millions of afghans

1) Pakistanis, Taliban and Al-Qaeda are celebrating the defeat of United States. It is a must for Biden administration to hold Pakistan accountable. All the Taliban leaders who are in Kabul including Haqqanis came from Pakistan.

2) They should make it very clear to the Taliban now who are in control of Kabul that if one more attack is carried out it will be Taliban held responsible for it because few days back we warned the Americans that the only way for Taliban to gain control of the Kabul airport is to stage suicide attacks and then blame it on the ISIS. Otherwise this fiasco is not going to end soon. So for Taliban to say it is not Taliban or the creator of the suicide bombings in Afghanistan over the past 20 years -- they cannot become innocent overnight.

3) United states must use its power of convening and power of bringing nations together to create an alliance for peace as it had created an alliance for war against terrorism and they should not abandon Afghanistan. There is a lot United States can do. Today the Afghans, your foes and your rivals and everybody else is watching the superpowers seeming so weak. That should be averted.

These are doable things. We are not asking you to re-escalate, come back militarily. We are asking United States to project confidence, hope, power. Not weakness, not desperation, not being seen as a superpower on the run and unable to do anything.



Q. Can you tell us how many fighters you have, what kind of equipment you have, what are the things that America might be able to offer you militarily so that you can accomplish your mission of defeating the Taliban, ISKP, the emergence of Al Qaeda and help Americans in the process that might be left behind get home ?

A. If any American tries to take refuge in the safe haven that we have created we will welcome them with open arms. We will provide them protection and we will make sure that they are safe and we will coordinate whatever way possible with you so that these Americans will be evacuated.

Panjshir valley today is not only a valley, it is the center, it is the safe haven and it is the capital for all those who fear their lives, who are fearing Taliban terrorists and who are trying to get to somewhere to feel safe.

So with that said what is our strength ? the biggest strength we have is our political will which unfortunately isn't there in Washington. United States is capable of doing everything but the decision which was taken to withdraw troops from Afghanistan so abruptly was a political decision.

It has hurt the feelings of so many American service members, the intelligence community, the strategic community.

Look I understand Washington was fatigued by paying few billion dollars and retaining 2000 troops in Afghanistan.

What you are seeing now America is paying with its dignity, reputation, credibility. America must show will and power and it should project hope and confidence.

[Double Edge]

Been reading news that Europe is not happy with the US withdrawal.

Something new here with the UK

What caused this controversy ?

Leaked pentagon document to politico

[Albany Rifles]

Well, as Boris was more like Trump there is no wonder that a Biden-Boris relationship would be more stormy than a Trump-Boris relationship.

And yes, the intel was that a mass casualty event was planned but the specifics could not be ascertained. So simple, prepare for the worst...but continue your mission.

This is standard operational palling for the medical support annex to the task force logistics operations order....written a crap load of those inmy days.

[tbm3fan]

Amrullah's interview with Fox from Aug 28

So with that said what is our strength ? the biggest strength we have is our political will which unfortunately isn't there in Washington. United States is capable of doing everything but the decision which was taken to withdraw troops from Afghanistan so abruptly was a political decision.

It has hurt the feelings of so many American service members, the intelligence community, the strategic community.

Look I understand Washington was fatigued by paying few billion dollars and retaining 2000 troops in Afghanistan.

What you are seeing now America is paying with its dignity, reputation, credibility. America must show will and power and it should project hope and confidence.

Clearly wants us back and committed still. Well he can shove it up his ass.

[Double Edge]

Clearly wants us back and committed still. Well he can shove it up his ass.

No he's not saying he wants you back.

He's looking for support from anybody & everybody that is willing. For now there is silence from the world. Any support will be covert.

He's blaming Trump for the deal and Biden for going through with it.

Amrullah's the kind of blunt talking guy with no BS. Calls it out as he sees it.

[TopHatter]

Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US

An Afghan who served as an interpreter for the US during the war in Afghanistan in a Washington Post op-ed said America's lack of knowledge about the culture of the country contributed heavily to its failures there.

"Many Americans have been asking ... how could Afghanistan have collapsed so quickly? As a former combat interpreter who served alongside U.S. and Afghan Special Operations forces, I can tell you part of the answer - one that's been missing from the conversation: culture," wrote Baktash Ahadi, who served U.S. and Afghan special operations troops as a combat interpreter from 2010 to 2012.

"When comparing the Taliban with the United States and its Western allies, the vast majority of Afghans have always viewed the Taliban as the lesser of two evils. To many Americans, that may seem an outlandish claim," Ahadi went on to say. "But the Americans also went straight to building roads, schools and governing institutions - in an effort to 'win hearts and minds' - without first figuring out what values animate those hearts and what ideas fill those minds. We thus wound up acting in ways that would ultimately alienate everyday Afghans."

The Taliban terrorized Afghanistan for years as it waged a brutal insurgency in the country after being knocked from power via the US invasion in 2001. The militant Islamist group is now back in control of the country, and the US military has fully withdrawn.

Ahadi emphasized that in most cases the only interactions Afghans had with the US and its allies "came via heavily armed and armored combat troops."

He said the US mistook the Afghan countryside for a "theater of war" as opposed to a place where people "actually lived."

Ahadi said America's failure to take culture into account extends well beyond Afghanistan.

"When it comes to cultural illiteracy, America is a recidivist. We failed to understand Iraqi culture, too, so that now, many Iraqis see Iran as the lesser of two evils," he said. "Before that, we failed to understand Vietnam. And so on. Wherever our relentless military adventurism takes us next, we must do better."

Front-line troops were not given any training in "cultural literacy," Ahadi said, bringing up the example of US Marines "mistaking" his exchange of Koran verses with fellow Afghans as "extremism rather than shared piety."

Ahadi's observations about why the US struggled to achieve its goals in Afghanistan have been echoed by experts on the region as well as a watchdog created by Congress to monitor the billions of dollars allocated for reconstruction in the country.

Western powers exhibited "hubris" in viewing "Afghan traditions as an obstacle to be overcome when, it turns out, they were the lifeblood of the country's political culture ... And this left the door open for the slow return of the Taliban," Shadi Hamid, a senior fellow in the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings Institution, recently wrote in the Atlantic.

Correspondingly, an August report on lessons learned from the war in Afghanistan from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), said that the US government's "misreading of the Afghan social and political environment meant that initiatives designed to stabilize and rehabilitate the country were poorly adapted to the local context."

The SIGAR report said US officials "rarely" had even a "mediocre understanding of the environment" they were operating in.

President Joe Biden also alluded to these issues in his speech Tuesday focusing on the Afghanistan withdrawal. He framed the decision to pull US troops from Afghanistan as a matter of "ending an era of major military operations to remake other countries."
____________

A long hard inward look at U.S. military/peacekeeping operations in foreign countries is overdue...and will likely never happen.

[TopHatter]

The US military says it permanently disabled over 150 vehicles and aircraft before leaving Kabul so they could 'never be used again'

The last manned US military aircraft have departed Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul, ending almost two decades of war in Afghanistan, Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie, the head of US Central Command, said on Monday afternoon.

Asked about military equipment left behind at the airport, McKenzie said that some was brought out. Other systems, he said, were "demilitarized," meaning US forces purposely broke them to prevent them from being used, CENTCOM clarified for Insider.

The counter rocket, artillery, and mortar systems, which were used to fend off a rocket attack on the airport on Monday, were kept online until the last minute and then demilitarized.

"We demilitarized those systems so that they'll never be used again," McKenzie said. "We felt it more important to protect our forces than to bring those systems back."

The general further explained that demilitarized equipment included 70 mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles "that will never again be used by anyone," 27 Humvees "that will never be driven again," and 73 aircraft that "will never fly again." Many of the aircraft were not mission capable anyway.

"They'll never be able to be operated by anyone again," the CENTCOM commander said.

McKenzie added that some systems, such as fire trucks and front-end loaders, were left operational so that the airport could restart operations as soon as possible.

Even if the Taliban, which rapidly seized control of Afghanistan earlier this month in a sweeping offensive, is unable to use the systems the US military did not take with it when it departed the Kabul airport, the group has gotten its hands on working systems.

The Taliban managed to capture an arsenal of US-made weapons and equipment, from rifles to military vehicles, when it overran the country and defeated the Afghan army, which the US has spent billions of dollars arming and equipping.

The Biden administration, which has faced criticism for its handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, has acknowledged that US-funded combat capabilities fell to the Taliban.

"We don't have a complete picture, obviously, of where every article of defense materials has gone, but certainly a fair amount of it has fallen into the hands of the Taliban," Jake Sullivan, the White House national security advisor, said just a few days after the fall of the Afghan capital.
_________

Inevitable that American equipment would land in Taliban hands completely intact, look at Vietnam, look at Iraq. But this is all relatively "low end" gear. Even the Black Hawks that were captured are decades-old technology.

[Double Edge]

^

The general further explained that demilitarized equipment included 70 mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles "that will never again be used by anyone," 27 Humvees "that will never be driven again," and 73 aircraft that "will never fly again." Many of the aircraft were not mission capable anyway.

Looks like they disabled mostly the mine resistant vehicles.

There is a reason these guys get around on Toyotas because with those you can skip 4 or 5 maintenance check ups and still be fine.

Try doing that with any American vehicle

I'm putting this in the category of self resolving prolems

Sill looking for an official source for that $80bn figure. The combined value of the above kit isn't any where close.

[Double Edge]

Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US

An Afghan who served as an interpreter for the US during the war in Afghanistan in a Washington Post op-ed said America's lack of knowledge about the culture of the country contributed heavily to its failures there.

"Many Americans have been asking ... how could Afghanistan have collapsed so quickly? As a former combat interpreter who served alongside U.S. and Afghan Special Operations forces, I can tell you part of the answer - one that's been missing from the conversation: culture," wrote Baktash Ahadi, who served U.S. and Afghan special operations troops as a combat interpreter from 2010 to 2012.

"When comparing the Taliban with the United States and its Western allies, the vast majority of Afghans have always viewed the Taliban as the lesser of two evils. To many Americans, that may seem an outlandish claim," Ahadi went on to say. "But the Americans also went straight to building roads, schools and governing institutions - in an effort to 'win hearts and minds' - without first figuring out what values animate those hearts and what ideas fill those minds. We thus wound up acting in ways that would ultimately alienate everyday Afghans."

The Taliban terrorized Afghanistan for years as it waged a brutal insurgency in the country after being knocked from power via the US invasion in 2001. The militant Islamist group is now back in control of the country, and the US military has fully withdrawn.

Ahadi emphasized that in most cases the only interactions Afghans had with the US and its allies "came via heavily armed and armored combat troops."

He said the US mistook the Afghan countryside for a "theater of war" as opposed to a place where people "actually lived."

Ahadi said America's failure to take culture into account extends well beyond Afghanistan.

"When it comes to cultural illiteracy, America is a recidivist. We failed to understand Iraqi culture, too, so that now, many Iraqis see Iran as the lesser of two evils," he said. "Before that, we failed to understand Vietnam. And so on. Wherever our relentless military adventurism takes us next, we must do better."

Front-line troops were not given any training in "cultural literacy," Ahadi said, bringing up the example of US Marines "mistaking" his exchange of Koran verses with fellow Afghans as "extremism rather than shared piety."

Ahadi's observations about why the US struggled to achieve its goals in Afghanistan have been echoed by experts on the region as well as a watchdog created by Congress to monitor the billions of dollars allocated for reconstruction in the country.

Western powers exhibited "hubris" in viewing "Afghan traditions as an obstacle to be overcome when, it turns out, they were the lifeblood of the country's political culture ... And this left the door open for the slow return of the Taliban," Shadi Hamid, a senior fellow in the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings Institution, recently wrote in the Atlantic.

Correspondingly, an August report on lessons learned from the war in Afghanistan from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), said that the US government's "misreading of the Afghan social and political environment meant that initiatives designed to stabilize and rehabilitate the country were poorly adapted to the local context."

The SIGAR report said US officials "rarely" had even a "mediocre understanding of the environment" they were operating in.

President Joe Biden also alluded to these issues in his speech Tuesday focusing on the Afghanistan withdrawal. He framed the decision to pull US troops from Afghanistan as a matter of "ending an era of major military operations to remake other countries."
____________

A long hard inward look at U.S. military/peacekeeping operations in foreign countries is overdue...and will likely never happen.

Why isn't that interpreter also calling out the Afghan govt ??

According to a talk I heard at Carnegie by Sarah Chayes back in 2015, The afghan govt was a predator govt that extorted its people. Corruption was rampant.

So the Taliban could play off that sentiment to its advantage. TB's claim to fame is speedy justice for disputes. TB style.

He said the US mistook the Afghan countryside for a "theater of war" as opposed to a place where people "actually lived."

I don't know about this. Views i've heard described ISAF operations as garrison based.

Had ISAF taken the fight into the country the TB would have found it harder to survive.

The provincial capitals were under control but the country side was TB country.

[Double Edge]

It's politico so I would take it with a very strong grain of salt....

Got another one from politico at #363

We'll keep a list and see how they stack up. They do have a tendency of grabbing attention. Quite good at that.

Did not bother with politico when Trump was in office because Bannon said they were quasi hostile.

They don't seem to be doing Biden any favours either by the looks of it.

A point about leaks between two administrations.

Under Trump leaks were to be interpreted as "cries of help" by responsible bureaucrats serving under a mad man.

This second one seems to cover for Biden.

[tbm3fan]

Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US

An Afghan who served as an interpreter for the US during the war in Afghanistan in a Washington Post op-ed said America's lack of knowledge about the culture of the country contributed heavily to its failures there.

"Many Americans have been asking ... how could Afghanistan have collapsed so quickly? As a former combat interpreter who served alongside U.S. and Afghan Special Operations forces, I can tell you part of the answer - one that's been missing from the conversation: culture," wrote Baktash Ahadi, who served U.S. and Afghan special operations troops as a combat interpreter from 2010 to 2012.

"When comparing the Taliban with the United States and its Western allies, the vast majority of Afghans have always viewed the Taliban as the lesser of two evils. To many Americans, that may seem an outlandish claim," Ahadi went on to say. "But the Americans also went straight to building roads, schools and governing institutions - in an effort to 'win hearts and minds' - without first figuring out what values animate those hearts and what ideas fill those minds. We thus wound up acting in ways that would ultimately alienate everyday Afghans."

The Taliban terrorized Afghanistan for years as it waged a brutal insurgency in the country after being knocked from power via the US invasion in 2001. The militant Islamist group is now back in control of the country, and the US military has fully withdrawn.

Ahadi emphasized that in most cases the only interactions Afghans had with the US and its allies "came via heavily armed and armored combat troops."

He said the US mistook the Afghan countryside for a "theater of war" as opposed to a place where people "actually lived."

Ahadi said America's failure to take culture into account extends well beyond Afghanistan.

"When it comes to cultural illiteracy, America is a recidivist. We failed to understand Iraqi culture, too, so that now, many Iraqis see Iran as the lesser of two evils," he said. "Before that, we failed to understand Vietnam. And so on. Wherever our relentless military adventurism takes us next, we must do better."

Front-line troops were not given any training in "cultural literacy," Ahadi said, bringing up the example of US Marines "mistaking" his exchange of Koran verses with fellow Afghans as "extremism rather than shared piety."

Ahadi's observations about why the US struggled to achieve its goals in Afghanistan have been echoed by experts on the region as well as a watchdog created by Congress to monitor the billions of dollars allocated for reconstruction in the country.

Western powers exhibited "hubris" in viewing "Afghan traditions as an obstacle to be overcome when, it turns out, they were the lifeblood of the country's political culture ... And this left the door open for the slow return of the Taliban," Shadi Hamid, a senior fellow in the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings Institution, recently wrote in the Atlantic.

Correspondingly, an August report on lessons learned from the war in Afghanistan from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), said that the US government's "misreading of the Afghan social and political environment meant that initiatives designed to stabilize and rehabilitate the country were poorly adapted to the local context."

The SIGAR report said US officials "rarely" had even a "mediocre understanding of the environment" they were operating in.

President Joe Biden also alluded to these issues in his speech Tuesday focusing on the Afghanistan withdrawal. He framed the decision to pull US troops from Afghanistan as a matter of "ending an era of major military operations to remake other countries."
____________

A long hard inward look at U.S. military/peacekeeping operations in foreign countries is overdue...and will likely never happen.

Most all US born white Americans do not understand any other culture other than their own except maybe those who do lots of foreign travel among the people of other countries. In my travels I have heard several times, particularly in Asia, that Americans (they mean Caucasians) don't understand us. I know GG has been married to a Korean woman for some time like me to a Filipina and I'd bet he can still get tripped up once in awhile like me regarding our wives thinking. I know I sure as hell do and it has been 21 years but I am way better than anyone who hasn't been exposed to living with someone from the Philippines. Hiya and Pakikisama can still trip me up since my mind first thinks in American terms rather than Filipino terms. The best thing I have learned is keep my mouth shut. Frankly white Americans will never understand other cultures for the most part. Not taught, not interested, why should I care, and so forth...

[Gun Grape]

Most all US born white Americans do not understand any other culture other than their own except maybe those who do lots of foreign travel among the people of other countries. In my travels I have heard several times, particularly in Asia, that Americans (they mean Caucasians) don't understand us. I know GG has been married to a Korean woman for some time like me to a Filipina and I'd bet he can still get tripped up once in awhile like me regarding our wives thinking. I know I sure as hell do and it has been 21 years but I am way better than anyone who hasn't been exposed to living with someone from the Philippines. Hiya and Pakikisama can still trip me up since my mind first thinks in American terms rather than Filipino terms. The best thing I have learned is keep my mouth shut. Frankly white Americans will never understand other cultures for the most part. Not taught, not interested, why should I care, and so forth...

Been married 30 yrs. Not to long ago I addressed my wife's younger sister as "Little Sister" instead of "Younger Sister In Law". The reaction I got was like if I had walked in and smacked her on the butt. Sometimes forget even basic rules of curtesy. Whenever you enter some ones house they will always offer you something to eat or drink. Never refuse. You can politely say "A glass of water would be fine" But "No thank you we just ate" is an insult

Also working with militaries from probably 25 different countries, We are our own worst enemy. Americans are arrogant.

Not to mention, the first thing Marines/Sailors do when they get in a foreign port is bitch because everything isn't in/doesn't speak English, the food looks/taste funny and none of the bars serve Budweiser or Natty Lite

[tbm3fan]

Been married 30 yrs. Not to long ago I addressed my wife's younger sister as "Little Sister" instead of "Younger Sister In Law". The reaction I got was like if I had walked in and smacked her on the butt. Sometimes forget even basic rules of curtesy. Whenever you enter some ones house they will always offer you something to eat or drink. Never refuse. You can politely say "A glass of water would be fine" But "No thank you we just ate" is an insult

Also working with militaries from probably 25 different countries, We are our own worst enemy. Americans are arrogant.

Not to mention, the first thing Marines/Sailors do when they get in a foreign port is bitch because everything isn't in/doesn't speak English, the food looks/taste funny and none of the bars serve Budweiser or Natty Lite

Why so formal as in "Little Sister" rather than just hello?

In the Philippines "hiya" is a very big deal. Sort of like "face" in other Asian cultures but more involved. An American like me will never be fluent in it's workings but at least I know how to keep out of trouble now. Their's is a culture where things are taken slowly. Business negotiations take days not hours. Terms like my final offer or not a dime more fall very flat and tend to ends things. No such thing as start high, counter low, and meet in the middle. The word "no" is frowned upon and I rarely hear it used in tagalog where it is hindi. If I want to get a beggar away from me all I have to do is say "hindi" and he acts as though shot dead in his tracks and turns away immediately. Thailand, Land of Smiles, is similar in many ways. A girl there once said I wear my feelings on my sleeve which meant too open when I got irritated by a taxi driver and things could have gone bad. Yep, my first Thailand trip after my first Philippines trip. Live and LEARN...

You're right Budweiser isn't in the Philippines which is why I bring my own bourbon and tequila as I am sure as hell not drinking Red Horse or their 20 pesos bathtub gin. Come to think of it I don't drink Bud here in the States either.

[Officer of Engineers]

Ahadi's observations about why the US struggled to achieve its goals in Afghanistan have been echoed by experts on the region as well as a watchdog created by Congress to monitor the billions of dollars allocated for reconstruction in the country.

Western powers exhibited "hubris" in viewing "Afghan traditions as an obstacle to be overcome when, it turns out, they were the lifeblood of the country's political culture ... And this left the door open for the slow return of the Taliban," Shadi Hamid, a senior fellow in the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings Institution, recently wrote in the Atlantic.

Correspondingly, an August report on lessons learned from the war in Afghanistan from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), said that the US government's "misreading of the Afghan social and political environment meant that initiatives designed to stabilize and rehabilitate the country were poorly adapted to the local context."

The SIGAR report said US officials "rarely" had even a "mediocre understanding of the environment" they were operating in.

As a former Peacekeeper, that is a whole bunch of bull. Their local situation did not solve itself and they were reduced to fighting; requiring outside intervention. If they could have done it themselves, they should have done it themselves. It most certainly does not mean turning us into locals just to oversee locals. Our morals are good enough. If we find things unacceptable, it is because they are unacceptable. We DO NOT NEED to understand local customs to accept the unacceptable.

No, we will not succeed trying to turn Afghans into Americans/Canadians/Brits/Martians but whole heartily, we should not be turning into Afghans just to please Afghans. Afghans allowed AQ in. It took Americans/Canadians/Europeans to tell the Afghans why that was a very bad idea.