Collapse in Afghanistan

[tbm3fan]

The GTFO warning from the US only came on August 7th, unless I missed an earlier one. How many commercial flights do you think Kabul airport was handling per week?

The "Level 4: Do Not Travel" advisory was something most had been used to seeing over the last decade. Bad, yes, but this is Afghanistan we are talking about. Sleepy Joe didn't see Kabul falling, hard to say the American citizens in that country should've seen it.

I just see loads of blame shifting. It's on Biden.



But Sleepy Joe has to ask permission from the Taliban first..

You did miss one as per the US Ambassador on the national news tonight. He told everyone registered with the embassy, which also means others didn't register, and told them to leave the country. While some listened others decided to stay and ignore the advice which he has no control over. Keep fishing...

[tbm3fan]

Are you kidding me about this and the equipment loss. The sticking point here is the ability of Taliban to to tell Biden to F off and Biden shifting blame elsewhere. People might have many reasons for visiting Afghanistan, really doubt it if anyone would visit that plan when there is imminent danger. If Biden and his cronies couldn't foresee the mess, how would ordinary folks know that the shit is going to hit the fan. The sticking point here is Biden not willing to press the Taliban to be flexible in terms of getting Americans out and securing the equipment. If a bunch of goat herders could do this to America then what about others. How will you convince anyone to be your collaborator in future, how will you get your translators, drivers and other support staff in foreign countries when you have set an example in Afghanistan by screwing them like this. Much as I loathe Trump, I think Taliban would have dealt with him with more flexibility.....

Big talk so I assume you have a plan for:

1. Defending the airport after Aug. 31st. Only a half dozen mortars shut down the runway. Then defend the airport should the Taliban mount a ground attack given their announced red line.

2. Rescue US citizens who managed to get themselves stuck by having the US military fight out of their perimeter, after Aug. 31st, into Kabul where the Taliban have the strategic advantage. I have one word for you on that... Mogadishu.

3. I'm done seeing US military casualties much less tell someone their loved one died on the last day.

As for Afghans the US has evacuated 70,000 at this point. How many more do you feel need to leave? The entire population of Kabul?

[Tronic]

You did miss one as per the US Ambassador on the national news tonight. He told everyone registered with the embassy, which also means others didn't register, and told them to leave the country. While some listened others decided to stay and ignore the advice which he has no control over. Keep fishing...

So the US ambassador told all US citizens registered through a voluntary, not a mandatory program with the US embassy to leave but could not get around to issuing an official alert through the embassy until August 7th? So this is why the shitshow of an evacuation is not Sleepy Joe's fault? That's quite a stretch to defend his incompetence.

[Tronic]

Big talk so I assume you have a plan for:

1. Defending the airport after Aug. 31st. Only a half dozen mortars shut down the runway. Then defend the airport should the Taliban mount a ground attack given their announced red line.

Bagram.

All because Sleepy Joe's priority was reducing the military's footprint rather than getting the people out first. Shutting down Bagram is on Biden.

The military's hands were tied by his politics and they had to choose between Bagram, KIA and the US Embassy. They didn't have the manpower to keep all 3 open; courtesy, Biden.

2. Rescue US citizens who managed to get themselves stuck by having the US military fight out of their perimeter, after Aug. 31st, into Kabul where the Taliban have the strategic advantage. I have one word for you on that... Mogadishu.

Except that the Taliban entered a city with American presence, not the other way around, unlike Mogadishu. The mere fact that you fear this would've turned into a Mogadishu situation, falls right into Biden's lap. Incompetence of the highest calibre.

3. I'm done seeing US military casualties much less tell someone their loved one died on the last day.

Well, good thing we eliminated AQ, Taliban and the global Jihad network then! I suppose they'll never again have a whole country as a base to plan attacks against us, right?

As for Afghans the US has evacuated 70,000 at this point. How many more do you feel need to leave? The entire population of Kabul?

That's a little misleading. The entire coalition (which includes Canada, UK, Germany, France, NZ, etc) have evacuated 70,000+, not the US alone.. And these are the folks in Kabul.. Afghan allies in all other parts of Afghanistan are being abandoned, let's be clear about that.

[Double Edge]

Are you kidding me about this and the equipment loss.

The sticking point here is Biden not willing to press the Taliban to be flexible in terms of getting Americans out and securing the equipment.

So here's a funny idea, imagine if that American equipment were to find its way somehow to..

- China, they would have to spend more time on their western border than their eastern seaboard
- Russia, worries about CAR instead of their western border
- Iran, worries about its eastern border instead of the western border giving the gulf & Israel a breather
- Pakistan, has to deal with the Durand line instead of Kashmir
- India, we already have people in place. We've been finding stuff like this for several decades already.

Anything wrong with this picture

If a bunch of goat herders could do this to America then what about others. How will you convince anyone to be your collaborator in future, how will you get your translators, drivers and other support staff in foreign countries when you have set an example in Afghanistan by screwing them like this

Here

CCP does not understand the concept of ally so its amusing to see them so concerned about US allies.

Much as I loathe Trump, I think Taliban would have dealt with him with more flexibility.....

Can't answer this hypothetical until we understand better why some crazy decisions were made.

Leaving Bagram. Pulling military out before civvies etc

it will come out in time.

If you notice the same predicament applies to all NATO not just the US. They too are scrambling to evacuate people that helped them.

How come they didn't manage to get people out before the Americans ? different leaders running those countries, yes ?

Why would the US object if say Australia or UK wanted to pull out people at risk earlier instead of waiting for the last minute. NATO didn't do it either. Not one of them.

Then we would not be seeing tweets like this (!!!)

It's like something suddenly happened and all got screwed at the same time.

PS: Since you were wondering

Trump statement

CORRECTION! The French started May 10

FRENCH DO IT DIFFERENTLY: We hear constantly that leaving Afghanistan was going to be a mess no matter which way it was done. While it’s true that both the U.S. and U.N. would have struggled to justify earlier mass evacuations while also expressing confidence in the former government, that doesn’t explain why the U.S. government processed Afghan special interest visas more slowly in 2021 than in recent years, which could have allowed more Afghans to get out on commercial flights while they still operated. The example of the French government demonstrates that there were other ways to evacuate.

The French government began evacuating its local Afghan staff on May 10, including cooks, drivers and cleaners. Full story by Jac Follorou in Le Monde. The aim was to have only French staff remaining by July — and indeed a final evacuation flight for non-essential staff took off July 17, when the Taliban already controlled large parts of the country, four weeks before the fall of Kabul.

France has continued to be involved in evacuating Afghans and nationals who refused the government’s advice — but has had spare capacity to, for example, evacuate more than 250 staff from the EU’s mission in Kabul, per Ambassador David Martinon.

So! they evacuated their Afghans (~600) first and then their own (a few hundred) and that was done by mid Jul.

Numbers are less but here's a govt with its priorities right. Way to go Macron.

EDIT: Read below to understand difference between French pullout and American

Its a false equivalence

[Double Edge]

Didn't take long, but the Taliban have figured out how to switch on the Black hawk.

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1430498664124923909

They will be using it as a land vehicle for now

[Albany Rifles]

So the US ambassador told all US citizens registered through a voluntary, not a mandatory program with the US embassy to leave but could not get around to issuing an official alert through the embassy until August 7th? So this is why the shitshow of an evacuation is not Sleepy Joe's fault? That's quite a stretch to defend his incompetence.

Guess what...unless you are an government employee or under a government contract, the US government has zero authority to tell anyone to do anything regarding leaving...all the State Department can do is advise.

And you keep saying the evacuation process is a shit show....what do you know that POTUS doesn't? And I mean know. I can tell you as a fact that DOD contractors and civilians have been getting reported to the Pentagon since May. How do I know? I dit on weekly Teams meetings giving status. I am the one responsible for my office to track personnel and we were told to get everyone out by th een of June...and we did. There were flights. And since the airlift began we have gotten over 80,000 people out.

And after 20years not one more life of a US Servicemember is worth risking death...we have paid the piper.

[Albany Rifles]

We have the press secretary clashing over the definition of "stranded", Biden just showed that he is a politician and not a President/Leader....

Considering he got into office by being a politician....

President Biden is being a leader. He made the hard choice and said enough and end the war.

If you want to see politicians over leaders look at the national level leaders in Afghanistan who fled the scene and didn't stay to help.

[Double Edge]

Also, just how many of these people actually have American citizenship or should have it. In NZ we're getting out some of those who helped us, they are complaining their second cousins twice removed are also entitled to NZ citizenship. Can't blame them for trying I suppose.

The Indian version. Paks want to send terrorists to India. LEGALLY.

Urdu speaking men attack Kabul office, seize Afghan passports with Indian visas | HT | Aug 25 2021

According to persons aware of this development, the Indian immigration agencies have been alerted to this seizure of Afghan passports with Indian visas as there is serious concern that these documents could be used to forge fake passports for terrorists in future. While it is not clear which group could be involved in this attack on the Indian visa outsourcing agency in Kabul, the needle of suspicion points towards Pakistan as the intruders were Urdu speaking. “There is a strong possibility that the Afghan passports with Indian visas could be used to forge passports for terrorists by changing the photograph on the travel document,:'' said a source from Kabul. Raisina Hill and security agencies are tight-lipped about the incident.

[Tronic]

Guess what...unless you are an government employee or under a government contract, the US government has zero authority to tell anyone to do anything regarding leaving...all the State Department can do is advise.

That public advisory came on August 7th.. Kabul fell on the 15th.

The "Level 4: Do Not Travel" advisory was not an out-of-routine advisory for Afghanistan, especially during the summer.

It did not ever mean, government collapse, threat of Taliban takeover.

You wouldn't have thousands of Americans trapped if it meant that. I don't think they are enjoying sharing their space with the Taliban. If they got the message, they would've gotten out earlier.

And you keep saying the evacuation process is a shit show....what do you know that POTUS doesn't? And I mean know. I can tell you as a fact that DOD contractors and civilians have been getting reported to the Pentagon since May. How do I know? I dit on weekly Teams meetings giving status. I am the one responsible for my office to track personnel and we were told to get everyone out by th een of June...and we did. There were flights. And since the airlift began we have gotten over 80,000 people out.

And yet military veterans have still needed to form their own private rescue groups to try and get their Afghan comrades out of Kabul before the Taliban gets to them. Many have been rescued, many have been killed and many are still on the run. Again, not Biden's problem right? He did what he could... everyone was just too stupid that that they missed the memo?

If private military veteran groups have been managing to save so many lives, so could have the US gov if they actually planned for it. They didn't.

https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=79583150

And after 20years not one more life of a US Servicemember is worth risking death...we have paid the piper.

We were not there as the aggressors. We were attacked. The war is not over.

Negotiating with the Taliban and then pulling out without a proper contingency plan puts all of our soldiers and civilians back at home at risk again.

[Double Edge]

The choice Biden faced was withdrawal or surge. As Blinken said..

https://twitter.com/IvoHDaalder/stat...96057083318273

Ah, they had to withdraw military on the date set by the Trump agreement. So that's why the mil leaves first. That's why they let go of Bagram.

Why leave the civvies for later then ?

There should be no mil first. It has to be civvies first.

Nobody foresaw the fall of Kabul in 11 days as Gen Milley said a week ago (!)

They couldn't get the civvies out because that would be another display of non-confidence in the Afghan govt.

The kicker is had the US done it they would have taken the blame for the fall of Kabul (!)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. A common American predicament.

oh man

[TopHatter]

The choice Biden faced was withdrawal or surge. As Blinken said..

https://twitter.com/IvoHDaalder/stat...96057083318273

Ah, they had to withdraw military on the date set by the Trump agreement. So that's why the mil leaves first. That's why they let go of Bagram.

Why leave the civvies for later then ?

There should be no mil first. It has to be civvies first.

Nobody foresaw the fall of Kabul in 11 days as Gen Milley said a week ago (!)

They couldn't get the civvies out because that would be another display of non-confidence in the Afghan govt.

The kicker is had the US done it they would have taken the blame for the fall of Kabul (!)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. A common American predicament.

oh man

That's why "Monday Morning Quarterback" is such a popular vocation, both at home and abroad.

[tbm3fan]

Guess what...unless you are an government employee or under a government contract, the US government has zero authority to tell anyone to do anything regarding leaving...all the State Department can do is advise.

And you keep saying the evacuation process is a shit show....what do you know that POTUS doesn't? And I mean know. I can tell you as a fact that DOD contractors and civilians have been getting reported to the Pentagon since May. How do I know? I dit on weekly Teams meetings giving status. I am the one responsible for my office to track personnel and we were told to get everyone out by th een of June...and we did. There were flights. And since the airlift began we have gotten over 80,000 people out.

And after 20years not one more life of a US Servicemember is worth risking death...we have paid the piper.

Come on now AR what could you possibly know being on the inside? Why you have to be on the outside in order to see the entire picture and know what is happening behind the scenes. I mean isn't it obvious here...?

[Tronic]

"Let's pull out maximum number of troops because we don't want more casualties."

Well, soldiers and civvies have just been killed because of this..

Probably not Biden's fault again..

[Tronic]

That's why "Monday Morning Quarterback" is such a popular vocation, both at home and abroad.

His actions were being criticized as things were playing out TH.. it isn't at all in hindsight.

He made all the wrong choices, even long before Kabul fell. In my other social circles, I had even been vocal about him abruptly cutting off air support even while Afghan units were surrounded and fighting the Taliban for more than 2 months.

It is a series of bad decisions and capitulation. Nothing in hindsight.