Pakistan to Canada : Stop griping about troop deaths

[Hari_Om]

If the Canadian “griping” is about the level of troop deaths in Afghanistan than General President Musharraf does have a point when he says :

When you get involved in places like Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan, yes indeed you have to suffer casualties, and the nation must be prepared to suffer casualties

If the Canadian “griping” OTOH is occasioned by some other contributory factor to the death of Canadian troops in Afghanistan;) , than that is another matter :

Pakistan to Canada: Stop griping about troop deaths

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:59 PM EDT

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf bluntly told Canadians on Tuesday to stop complaining about the number of soldiers they were losing in Afghanistan, saying Canada's death toll was far less than Pakistan's.

Canada has 2,300 troops based in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar. In the last three months, 20 soldiers have been killed in clashes with Taliban militants, prompting calls for the mission to be brought back home.

Musharraf told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. that if Canada was worried about soldier fatalities, it should not be in the war-torn country.

"When you get involved in places like Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan, yes indeed you have to suffer casualties, and the nation must be prepared to suffer casualties. So if you're not prepared to suffer casualties as an army, then don't participate in any operation," he said in an interview.

Since Canada joined the U.S.-led war on terror in late 2001, about 35 of its soldiers have died in Afghanistan. Musharraf, whose country neighbors Pakistan, dismissed this as a mere handful.

"We have suffered 500 casualties. The Canadians have suffered four or five. What are you talking about? Who are you talking to? Who are you talking to? You are talking to the president of a country that has suffered 500 casualties," he said.

"You have suffered two dead and there is crying and shouting all around the place that there are coffins. Well, we've had 500 coffins."
Prime Minister Stephen Harper's chief spokeswoman said she was unaware of the comments.

Musharraf also dismissed a suggestion by Canadian Defense Minister Gordon O'Connor that Canadian troops might be based in Pakistan to help the fight against militants.

"I can assure you our troops are more effective and we have more experience of war. This (suggestion) shows a lack of trust in Pakistan," he said.

[Officer of Engineers]

Wonderful. This from a guy who just gave up his fight.

[lemontree]

Muaharraf must stop making a fool of his nation, by such foot-in-the-mouth statements. I pity the souls he commands.

[kams]

OMG, with all due respects to Pakistani Army, they lost people inside their border. They did not die in Afghanistan. If you let your country to become a base for international terrorists what else do you expect?

[Officer of Engineers]

Casualties are extremely regrettable but necessary. In this case, it would seem that the Canadians are willing to tolerate theirs while the Pakistanis are not. If you're not fighting to win, then you've done shame to the men you have lost.

Since Kragil, I never viewed Musharaff as a leader of men. I'm even less incline to believe he could lead a Mickey Mouse club.

[Ray]

Musharraf does not understand the difference in the psyche.

[kams]

Musharaff is a survivor.

[Officer of Engineers]

How the hell did he make General?

[troung]

"I can assure you our troops are more effective and we have more experience of war. This (suggestion) shows a lack of trust in Pakistan," he said.

Wonderful, they lost in 1971 and the Kargil and failed to take Kashmir in 1948 and 1965. Losing does provide experience in warfare but constantly losing is not a mark of being effective or competent.

Oh yeah and they just lost to the Tribals...

I'll take the Canadians...

[Anoop C]

How the hell did he make General?

By superceding two others due to political considerations. His predecessor, Gen. Jehangir Karamat, though a highly regarded professional, fell into disfavor with the then PM, Nawaz Sharif, because he argued for a formal role of the military in governing the country. Sharif, at that time, had almost as much electoral power as former PM, Z.A. Bhutto, had during 1977, when he appointed Gen. Zia-ul-Haq as COAS for his apparent lack of interest in politics. In both cases, the PMs made terrible errors of judgement, as one found out on his gallows and the other found out in exile.

By no accounts is Gen. Musharraf half the soldier that he claims to be. He is given to aggrandization and not to action. His only decisive actions so far have been retreats, whether near the Mizo hills in 1971, Kargil in 1999, Afghanistan in 2001 and now FATA in 2006.

[lemontree]

How the hell did he make General?

A$$-licking one can assume.
He also happens to be a former coy cdr of 2 SSG that butchered their own men in Mar/ Apr 1971 just because they were bengali. Those men were with the unit since its raising about a decade ago. Musharraf is one of the original genocidal war criminals of the 20th century.

[smilingassassin]

As a Canadian I have every right to complain about the deaths of my boys, particularily when Mushy's policy of signing peace deals with the Taliban is contributing to Canadian soldiers deaths!

[Hari_Om]

Your Prime Minister has a different view.

You are a Liberal perhaps ? :

Anyway Musharraf got the Canadian deaths in Afghanistan wrong by a factor of at least 7X.

Harper silent as Pakistan PM dismisses Canadian casualties

Mike Blanchfield in Ottawa and Allan Woods in Bucharest
CanWest News Service; Ottawa Citizen

Thursday, September 28, 2006

The Conservative government went out of its way Wednesday to avoid criticizing Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf for characterizing Canadians as complainers over the deaths of their soldiers in Afghanistan.

The Liberals, meanwhile, criticized the Pakistan strong man for the controversial remarks, which came in a CBC television interview.

''We have suffered 500 casualties,'' Musharraf told CBC in a televised interview Tuesday night. ''Canadians may have suffered four or five.

''You suffer two dead and you cry and shout all around the place that there are coffins,'' the general said. ''Well, we have had 500 coffins.''

In fact, 36 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan, including nine this month.

The interview was one of several Musharraf has given in recent days following his arrival in Washington for a three-way meeting with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai a vocal critic of Musharraf's tolerance of the Taliban and U.S. President George W. Bush.

While Liberal Leader Bill Graham insisted Canadians ''aren't moaning'' about this country's casualties, Prime Minister Stephen Harper avoided direct comment on Musharraf's remarks, telling journalists travelling with him to the Francophonie summit in Romania that he had not been briefed on the interview.

However, Harper did take a shot at another critic former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin, who questioned the success of the Afghanistan mission in an interview with the Toronto Star.

''We are doing the defence,'' Martin told the newspaper. ''But are we doing the amount of reconstruction, the amount of aid that I believe was part of the original mission? The answer unequivocally is that we're not. And I believe that we should.''

Harper said it was irresponsible for Martin to offer the criticism because it was his government that decided to send Canadian troops to Kandahar, the most dangerous part of Afghanistan.

''When you make those kinds of decisions as a prime minister you have to be able to take responsibility for them and stick with them,'' Harper said. ''The fact that Mr. Martin is unable to do that ... illustrates why he is no longer prime minister.''

On the Musharraf issue, Harper reiterated that Pakistan is an important ally in the fight against terrorism in Afghanistan, and that the flow of Taliban insurgents across the Pakistan-Afghan border into the Kandahar region is an issue ''we are all aware of.''

In Ottawa, Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay said he had not called Islamabad to complain about Musharraf's remarks.

''We've lost soldiers. They've lost soldiers. That is a very emotional issue. There are Afghans who are dying daily,'' MacKay said.

Asked whether he thought Musharraf's remarks were callous, MacKay replied: ''Look, all I can say is that we have to work co-operatively with Pakistan; they're an important partner in this mission.''

MacKay also sent strong signals he did not want to upset the three-way discussions taking place in Washington between Bush, Karzai and Musharraf.

''Partners need to pull together and they need to keep the important principles that we believe in, collectively, in mind and so, to that end I'm mindful of the fact President Karzai, Musharraf, and President Bush are meeting this week,'' MacKay said.

''We're hoping that that will result in greater understanding and co-operation.''

Graham said that, as the former defence and foreign minister, he has urged Musharraf's government to do more to make its border with Afghanistan less porous.

''That's a very legitimate point for us to make. I don't think that it's appropriate to come back and say we're moaning. We're not moaning,'' said Graham.

''It's accepted amongst the NATO allies that Taliban elements and insurgent elements in Afghanistan do have a safe haven in Pakistan. President Musharraf himself has in the past said that the control of the frontier areas by Pakistan has always been problematic.''

Liberal defence critic Ujjal Dosanjh said he was disappointed Musharraf ''would belittle the sacrifices that Canadians are making,'' although he acknowledged the sacrifices that Pakistani soldiers have made in their lawless tribal belt along the Pakistan-Afghan border.

''What he needs to do is ensure that Talibans do not continue to flow from Pakistan into Afghanistan so that they don't come back with training and finances and kill our soldiers, kill our men and women.''

Dosanjh noted how Karzai, in his visit to Ottawa last week, pointed the finger at Afghanistan's ''neighbours'' for providing safe havens, training and sources of finance.

Karzai has been vocal in his criticism of Pakistan's role in providing a safe haven for Islamic extremists, although in the run up to his meeting in Washington this week, Karzai has shied away from singling out Pakistan by name, an approach he took during his address to Canada's Parliament.
Harper met Wednesday with Romanian President Traian Basescu, where they discussed the country's shared effort in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan.

[smilingassassin]

Nope, I'm a conservative too, A liberal would be whining because we are simply there, I complain because I don't like it when a foriegn leader tells me how to feel about about the death of my fellow Canadians fighting creaps he's making peace deals with....

[Ray]

Smiling,

Please note it is not any old foreign leader.

It is the front line ally.

It is the person who claims openly that without Pakistan, the West would be on its bended knees. ROFL


It is the Messiah himself who is speaking!

He is your Saviour! ;)

(He, of course, conveniently forgets what Armitage told him about bombing his country to Kingdom Come and the millions of dollars the CIA and Bush gave his govt to shore up his bankrupt and decadent country !)