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  • Saffron Terror: Splinter or Symptom? on JSTOR

    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • Originally posted by Tronic View Post

      Well.. technically, cracking down on any peaceful protestors is unlawful but it's interesting to see how frustrated you are to the fact that it's harder to play the "rioting" card against 80 year olds, which no doubt would be, and is used, against younger protestors.. Interesting you too have your eyes on the bad PR such a crackdown would generate against the government.
      Completely lawful and justified if they are threatening the peace and obstructing others from going along their daily life.

      Not frustrated at all, more i dig into your charges, more i find there is nothing there to write home about.

      Hardly surprising as six years into this govt and ten out of ten bad things lefties & opposition said would happen never came to pass.

      This is why Modi increased his lead in the second election. More they attacked him the stronger he became.

      Lies don't fly. They get exposed and the people peddling them get ignored.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      See, the thing about social media is, it's making it easier to expose government organized violence..
      Certainly, but its also leading to rumours and fake news and consequences follow.

      This is why the govt unplugs the internet so often whenever there is a hint of unrest.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Here's government trolleys transporting and dumping stones at Shaheen Bagh the night before the government's goons utilized the same stones to attack the sitting protestors with:

      Date of that video is Feb 28. The unrest began a few days earlier which is where these people got stoned from roof tops.

      Muslims were the ones who started stone pelting the cops.

      Now that i think about it there were reports of cops helping people because they were getting hammered by the other side that was prepared.

      Course the western liberal press likes to blame Kapil Mishra. He wasn't villifed here. Here is an interview he gave later.

      Critics like AIM charge Amit Shah with negligence. For not acting in time.

      The Seelampur riots were left unaddressed, this then turned into the Delhi unrest which was just over the state border.

      Had Seelampur been cracked down there would have been no Delhi unrest ?

      I sincerely hope the govt is learning from its mistake here.

      The common pattern i've seen applied for decades in India is you let a fire burn itself out in the place it began and not allow it to spread.

      Clearly that lesson was forgotten in the case of Seelampur. The authorities failed to grasp the potential for a wider conflagration.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      You're lying again...



      and here's Godi media gleefully covering the police action after the heavy deployment of forces and the cops started moving in towards the site:



      This is about the time the farmers started to rush the Ghazipur protest site in their thousands overnight:



      And this is about the time the security forces saw the rapidly changing situation, backed off and hopped back on their trucks and left the site:

      Bingo! they backed off. No crack down. People continued to protest there at Ghazipur after.

      Crackdown means forcefully evict which did happen at the Saharanpur-Delhi highway. This is UP - Delhi border. Things must have gone out of control to do that.

      Crackdown means you do it every where not only in one place.

      So i maintain no crackdown. That order has not been given yet.

      I like the idea of switching the street lights off though.

      It scares people and hopefully they understand there is a countervailing force watching them.

      I was thinking of this facist term you like to throw around and finding more reasons demonstrate why its so empty

      India has 10% of the police force it needs for a given population compared to the west.

      Police are a cost centre the local police chief told me. There is no way they will get more budget to have more cops.

      That is to say India has no chance of being facist here because they lack the capability.

      This might partly explain the soft approach that Amith Shah is following. He can't do more with what he has and he cannot get what he wants.

      India is less of a police state than the west and nobody says the west is a police state.

      To become a police state the internal security budget has to exceed the defense budget like is the case in China.

      Fat chance that will ever happen in India
      Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Feb 21,, 15:47.

      Comment




      • Interesting discussion that gets into a lot of what we've said here and rebutting the assertions Tronic throws around.

        I am surprised to hear Harish Salve say he would be disappointed if the govt does not prosecute this case.

        with what ? no evidence out she comes.

        Circumstantial might be enough to haul her in and temporarily hold her under suspicion but ultimately isn't enough to keep her indefinitely.

        Comment


        • Keeping 5 divisions on the border costs 50 - 100 cr /day

          A day of farmers protests costs 3,500 cr / day in business disruption

          One day of farmers protests buys a month of deployment on the border (!)

          Where does this money come from ? our taxes

          As things stand these protests present a severe economic threat.

          It's not yet become a social threat because there are people itching to instigate riots

          These protesters should have been tackled 50 days ago.

          Govt needs to crack down and soon.

          Next significant date now is Mar 12 when the two months stay the SC granted will expire.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Feb 21,, 03:36.

          Comment


          • Greta might now have known about stubble burning but you'd think Disha Ravi might be more aware ? no

            What’s Common to Greta Thunberg, Disha Ravi, Rupi Kaur? The Hypocrisy of the ‘Woke’ | News 18 (op-ed) | Feb 17 2021

            Unsurprisingly, being at the heart of India’s ill-conceived green revolution, the so-called “agricultural miracle” of Punjab was based on a destruction of crop diversity and hence food security, rampant use of chemical fertilizers that have poisoned the soil, unsustainable irrigation practices that leave Punjab’s water table depleted in the next 10 to 15 years, and the unchecked growth of eucalyptus as a commercial crop that is known to play more havoc with water tables than any human intervention possibly could.

            Amazingly her Indian colleague—Disha Ravi who has been posited as a “climate change activist”—seemed equally clueless about the environmental consequences of Punjab’s unsustainable farming practices. While one could excuse Greta, a foreigner, for being clueless about India, one would have expected an alleged local working in the climate sphere for a few years to be at least rudimentarily familiar with such problems?

            But no, turns out one doesn’t actually need to know anything about the ecology or India to be an ecological activist in India.

            Why Are India’s Farmers Protesting? | Fair Observer | Feb 17 2021

            The Green Revolution ended India’s ship-to-mouth existence. India’s population had exploded after independence in 1947. In a poor country, agriculture was inefficient and rain-fed. A bad monsoon meant poor harvests. Demand would outstrip supply and the specter of famine was never far off. Until production took off in India, the US supplied grains to Indian masses under the Agricultural Trade Development and Assistance Act of 1954, commonly known as PL–480 or Food for Peace. Lyndon B. Johnson limited even critical famine aid to India, demanding the country implement agricultural reforms and temper criticism of US intervention in Vietnam. The Green Revolution provided India with food security after two centuries of rapacious British rule.
            So it ws Johnson that spurred Shastri into making agricultural reforms ? Johnson delayed food shipments after Shastri criticised the US for Vietnam.

            From the outset, the reforms have proved controversial. In September, the BBC wondered whether they were a “death warrant” for farmers. Some farmers worry whether the reforms might lead to the end of wholesale markets and guaranteed prices. Currently, the government offers a minimum support price that acts as a safety net for farmers. Even though the government has promised to retain such a price, farmers fear its withdrawal over time.

            There is an added fear that big private players will offer good money to farmers in the beginning, kill off their competition and then pay little for agricultural produce. Farmers might go from the local monopsonies of the APMCs to the national oligopoly of Amazon-like behemoths. It is important to remember that the government offers price support only for the staple crops of the Green Revolution. Other crops do not qualify, nor do fruits and vegetables.

            Unsurprisingly, the overwhelming number of protesters are farmers from India’s northwest, the region that has benefited most from the old system. In particular, they belong to Punjab, Haryana and western Uttar Pradesh, the birthplace of the Green Revolution. In 2018-19, APMCs procured 73% and 80% of the total wheat production in Punjab and Haryana respectively at a minimum support price. This was higher than the market price, but a hefty chunk of the support price ends up in the hands of middlemen through various fees and charges. Unknown to most, price support does not necessarily mean income support in the current system.

            Farmers in the Himalayas, the Nilgiris or most other parts of India never benefited from the status quo. As a result, farmers in 25 of India’s 28 states and all eight union territories have not taken to the streets. The Shetkari Sanghatana, a Maharashtra-based farmers’ union founded by the economist-turned-farmer leader Sharad Joshi, and other unions support the government’s agricultural reforms.

            The late Joshi was convinced that “the root cause of farmers’ problems lay in their limited access to the market.” As per this farmer leader, open and competitive markets, instead of a top-down command-and-control agricultural economy, served farmer interests better. Joshi opposed the APMCs, and his organization naturally supports recent reforms. In fact, it wants to go much further. It wants the government to remove the ban on the export of onions and threatened to pelt BJP MPs with onion bulbs if the government fails to do so.
            Decent write up from this american publication.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Feb 21,, 04:25.

            Comment


            • "Considering the scanty and sketchy evidence on record, I do not find any palpable reason to deny bail", Additional Sessions Judge Dharmender Rana of Patiala House Court Complex noted in the order granting bail.

              "The offence of sedition cannot be invoked to minister to the wounded vanity of the governments"
              The cops really didn't manage to prove sedition so she could not be held. As expected she's out on bail.

              'Evidence On Record Not Sufficient To Keep A 22 Year Old In Custody': Delhi Court Grants Bail To Disha Ravi In 'Toolkit' Case | Live Law | Feb 23 2021

              Link has the order in it for perusal. Every scathing word of it (!)

              Now what ? the investigation is still at a nascent stage so she's not completely out of the woods just yet.

              It does not quash existing FIR's. It's not the final decision of a trial.

              You could criticise why was she hauled in when the cops have yet to complete their investigation.

              In India people get picked up when the investigation starts unlike abroad when it completes and they actually have some credible charges to file against.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Feb 21,, 21:37.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 667medic View Post
                The Canadian PR firm owned by Mo Dhaliwal, a Khalistani had allegedly paid $2.5 million for the Rihanna tweet, which he is denying. If we are to believe in the authenticity of the toolkit, Rihanna tweet is mentioned in the document along with the exact text that she is supposed to tweet. This document was also authored by Mo Dhaliwal. The issue with the bolded part below, how was it done....
                Was listening to Vikram Sood and he had some interesting questions

                This counter narrative is coming from where ?

                Where does Mo Dhaliwal get $2.5m ? Is he rich, does he get contributions and since when have they been collecting this money.

                There's an organisation, there's planning, they probably cased the area around Delhi where to have the blockade.

                Who runs the economy of that blockade. How many protesters ? 10k ? 20k.

                Who feeds them ? From basic amenities to bed time. Who gives it to them.

                How did they organise it.

                All been planned. Meticulously to the finest detail.
                He thinks the govt did well handling the farmers protest.

                Had a bullet been fired, had two people died these protesters would have gone to town.

                Tremendous restraint. Compliments to the police. Out numbered. Out manouvered. But they didn't hit back.

                Took courage. 300 cops injured. Imagine.

                In any other country the tanks would have been rolled out.

                GOI won the narrative battle on Jan 26.

                Now we hear 80 farmers or is it more that have died in this struggle.

                Who's to be blamed ? the govt didn't kill them.

                YOU people killed them. YOU brought them there in the cold.

                You promised them everything and they are going to get nothing.

                How can you take extra constituional measures to undo a constitutional process.

                This is not an occupying govt, this is your own govt that has been elected democratically.

                It is my govt too.

                The opposition has said the existing laws were bad. The Punjab govt has said it. Sharad Pawar too.

                Why doesn't he walk the talk now ?

                Urban naxal playbook was followed here but its not working. Two reasons

                1) govt won the narrative battle
                2) govt did not budge on the laws. No repeal.

                Tactical error by Tikait with the repeal stance or else.

                Had he been ready to negotiate maybe things might have worked out.
                That's how this ex-RAW chief sees it
                Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Feb 21,, 00:46.

                Comment


                • Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • After reports of Khalistani threats, MEA asks Canada to ensure Indians’ safety | WION | Feb 25 2021

                    India on Thursday requested the Canadian authorities to ensure the safety and security of its citizens following reports that threats have been given by Khalistani groups to the Indian community in Canada after they held a 'tiranga rally' in support of farm laws.

                    Earlier this month, a group of Indian diaspora conducted a 'Tiranga Yatra rally' in Vancouver from Strawberry Hill in Surrey to the Consulate General of India as a display of the strong bilateral relations between India and Canada.

                    The rally saw the participation of scores of people holding Indian and Canadian flags. Besides the huge crowd, around 350 cars took part in the yatra.
                    HAH! there's pushback and the little Khalistanis don't like it one bit. Awwww

                    Feeling threatened by 100+ crowd only, lol

                    Bout time the 'right' diaspora in Canada woke up to the facts.





                    Now let's have some more in the US & UK

                    "We have requested them to take steps to ensure the safety of Indian citizens in Canada. We advise Indian nationals to report any such incidents to the local Canadian police and also bring to the immediate attention of the High Commission of Ottawa and as well as our consulates there," the MEA spokesperson said.
                    These threats seem to be going a bit further

                    Trudeau govt wakes up to death threat to PM Modi, provides security to top Indian diplomats | HT | Feb 07 2021

                    The Justin Trudeau government in Canada has finally woken up to death threats to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Indian consul general at Vancouver made by pro-Khalistan separatists on January 26 and provided armed guard security to top Indian diplomats in Ottawa and Vancouver on Saturday.

                    The Trudeau government last Friday instructed the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to provide protection to the Indian embassies in Ottawa and Vancouver after external affairs minister S Jaishankar spoke to his Canadian counterpart Marc Garneau on February 5.

                    The action was taken after at least four note verbale were issued to Canadian authorities at Vancouver and Ottawa after death threat to the Indian consul general on December 26, 2020. Two police complaints were also filed by the Vancouver consul general office.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Feb 21,, 01:18.

                    Comment


                    • Comment


                      • Another tiranga rally being disrupted in Canada by the Khalistanis who are paying foreign students to act as their rent a mob.

                        Good. This will only encourage more to defy their diktats.



                        At some point these jokers will realise they are outnumbered.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Mar 21,, 03:25.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          Date of that video is Feb 28. The unrest began a few days earlier which is where these people got stoned from roof tops.

                          Muslims were the ones who started stone pelting the cops.

                          Now that i think about it there were reports of cops helping people because they were getting hammered by the other side that was prepared.
                          Yea... because after protesting peacefully for months against anti-CAA laws, the protestors, all of a sudden decided pelting the cops with stones will help their cause.. loll.. You must think the world is stupid.. The so called "riots", aka massacre of Muslims on Delhi's streets last year, was solely done to crush the anti-CAA protest. "Muslims started pelting rocks" etc etc is all a bullshit coverup.. Enough independent media sources have covered this, but I'm sure with Modi's new IT laws these channels of information will also be shut, if their reporters have somehow managed to avoid being thrown in prison on "sedition" charges already..

                          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Another tiranga rally being disrupted in Canada by the Khalistanis who are paying foreign students to act as their rent a mob.

                            Good. This will only encourage more to defy their diktats.



                            At some point these jokers will realise they are outnumbered.
                            Your video says "unavailable in your country" for some reason but I'm assuming its about the joke of a rally the Indian government/BJP supporters organized through Brampton this last weekend with a grand total of 9 cars loll.. I saw that Indian media is showing some visuals of a line of cars (even hilariously claiming there to be 350-400 cars), but the dozen or so being aired in Indian media all seem to be parked at some side road in the countryside in Caledon, I never saw more than 9 (2 of which ended up crashing into each other with one guy rear-ending the one in front of him, making the rally go down to 7 cars lol). Outnumbered, loll.. good joke.

                            The "outnumbered" actually happened when word started to get out about this joke of a rally and people started pouring into the streets in their cars clad with pro-farmer flags. Within half an hour, all of Brampton roads were jam packed on a Sunday evening with cars honking and waiving pro-farmer flags.. It was unorganized and spontaneous but still managed to have made a huge presence felt, so much so that all of downtown Brampton was literally jam packed with cars and the rallies went on through the night with Peel Police eventually guiding the free flow of traffic. The pro-BJP rally scattered pretty quickly; I guess they got their shots to send over to the Indian media for their domestic Indian consumption. lol.

                            Indian government cannot organize against grassroots movements in Canada.. You're talking about an actual free country where people have a voice which can't be gagged unlike in India.

                            As for "Khalistanis paying Indian students in Canada to protest against India".. LOL You are hilariously delusional!

                            Khalistanis are now apparently paying Hollywood, funding the hundreds of thousands at the protest sites in India, paying International students to protest against India, manipulating governments, and pouring all this money just to get the Indian government to take back it's 3 agricultural laws... because that will somehow help with creating Khalistan.. lolll.. Now that is logic! Very stupid, very delusional and a very laughable logic! I used to see this in the early days of WAB with a lot of Pakistani members who called everything wrong with their country an external conspiracy being hatched against them. This is pretty much what the Indian national narrative has come down to now as well.. I think the apt term is Cognitive Dissonance..
                            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                            Comment


                            • Another important aspect which underlines the Indian government's strategy and which has also been quite evident in this thread is to put a nasty, intolerant and vile spin to this whole protest movement. I mean, this whole thread, and even in reality on the ground, has just been the government and their supporters shouting and calling the protestors names such as "Khalistanis", "Extremists", "Seperatists", etc, etc, while the protests which have been going on peacefully for the last 6 months, breaking down barriers, uniting across religious and ethnic lines (Hindus-Sikhs-Muslims and now even Dalits have all united in support of these protests). These protests are the pure definition and example of unity vs hatred and democracy vs fascism.

                              Since last summer, protests in all of the Western world have also been going on peacefully without a single incident but now the Indian government seems to be rearing its ugly head in the West through their local hate groups.

                              The recent rally through Brampton was an example of this ugly tactic:

                              They officially claimed to be carrying out the rally in support of Indo-Canadian ties and for the recent vaccination shipment, but on their social media handles and on the streets, they were advertising the rally as an anti-farmers protest rally. They also decided to carry out this "anti-farmer's protest" rally through Brampton, a city in Canada with a large Punjabi population which has been very vocal in support of the farmer's protest. They even got into scuffles with some pro-farmer protestors which were than amplified by Indian media as evidence of "Khalistani extremism".

                              Here is some more ugly truth of these radical RSS affiliate scums in Canada trying to fck up the social fabric of this country by bringing their hate filled ideology based on religion to our society. After having spread their filthy ideology in India and completely destroying that country's pluralistic society and replacing it with "riots" and religious hatred, they bring this filth to our shores!

                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tronic View Post

                                Yea... because after protesting peacefully for months against anti-CAA laws, the protestors, all of a sudden decided pelting the cops with stones will help their cause.. loll.. You must think the world is stupid.. The so called "riots", aka massacre of Muslims on Delhi's streets last year, was solely done to crush the anti-CAA protest. "Muslims started pelting rocks" etc etc is all a bullshit coverup.. Enough independent media sources have covered this, but I'm sure with Modi's new IT laws these channels of information will also be shut, if their reporters have somehow managed to avoid being thrown in prison on "sedition" charges already..

                                Yes, muslims were the ones who started stone pelting first.

                                This was a shock to see outside some streets in Kashmir. When did stone pelting become a legitimate form of protest ?

                                Kapil Mishra was absolutely justified in confronting these jihadis that they could not go blocking streets as they wished.

                                They couldn't handle it and lashed out.

                                The beauty of CAA is it completely exposed this false narrative of minorities being oppressed by showing what the state of minorities was in neighbouring muslim countries.

                                Numbers of ALL minorities grew in India since independence whereas they significantly reduced elsewhere.

                                People protesting CAA were entirely clueless as to the content of that law. Rent a mobs agitated by radicals.

                                Fake protests followed by a fake riot just as a show of strength. Frustrated that the Modi govt was passing laws they could not do squat about.

                                I look forward to CAA being notified in law after any pending SC cases are disposed off.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Mar 21,, 12:46.

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