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  • Don't see any arms or jets from Kennedy in the 60s or 70s?

    And then in fact we had the Americans training PA, PAF, and PN against India, supplying free weapons in 1971 conflict to Pakistan, Asking china to open up a front to ease PA, sending a CBG into the Indian Ocean for coercive diplomacy. Forcing us into Soviet camp.

    Even if we got into a strategic treaty with US in the 60s, they would have thrown us overboard for China in the 70s, as their war was against the Soviets, and our geological location gave no advantage.

    These are transactional treaties we will allies till it suits both of us against Chian, and then go our own ways. There is no strategic autonomy we are giving up or the USA is providing us with.

    For all the hullabaloo, India and the USA share very few common values to base a relationship over. In a neutral multipolar world, where we are not forced due to China we would be at loggerheads on several issues.

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    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

      All good. But. Taliban follows Deobandi ideology. PA will never want to solve the Kashmir problem, as it eases their grip on Pakistan. Not all muslims of Kashmir praise Pakistan, want to join Pakistan, or want freedom from India.
      The Talibani Deobandis and our Deobandis are very different. I have spend several months in Deoband on projects, and spent a lot of that time taking with our deobandis, they had the same thoughts on future of India as me, and i never had any trouble with them, quite manageable these guys.

      Muslim in the Valley hate Indians, and the Indian military presence ensures they keep hating India, the ones who do not are so few that they hardly matter. The religious institutions in Kashmir are actively supporting insurgency in thought and actions. There is no saving the opinions of these guys, exercise in futility.
      Not all Muslims wanted Pakistan, however still at the time of independence you have to our east and west a Pakistan.
      Similarly, lets not be delusional, the Kashmiri Muslims have hated Kashmiri Hindus and Indians (irrespective of religion) for several hundred years and will keep doing so, this whole Kashmiriyat Bullshit was never real in majority.

      The reality of the situation is that Indian political, bureaucratic, and military leadership is very happy with the status quo.

      Modi has started some change, now he should split Jammu away from Kashmir, Ladakh is already free of these racists. Lock all of them up for 40-50 years in Chinese style re-education camps, and in the meanwhile fill the valley to the brim with Indian Muslims, break away their mosques and madrasas replace them with Indian Madrasas and mosques and mullahs.

      PA won't want to solve it, they will have terrorist attacks all over India to stop it, and to maneuver through this needs a absolute dictator in power in Delhi, this will be the best solution for the subcontinent, even if we have to give up control of the Kashmir Valley.

      Even if some neutral administration proposal for all of Kashmir in Pakistan and Indian control is found out and a strong dictator in Delhi is ready to implement it. Pakistani Army will be willing to start a nuclear war to ensure that there is no peace, for them the day there is peace, the game is over.
      Last edited by kuku; 18 Nov 20,, 14:45.

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      • UK committee publishes scathing report on Lord Nazir

        Same clown who organises rallies in UK against India. A rapist and a paedophile.
        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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        • Pakistan never knew of Osama raid - Barack Obama

          LMAO!!! Remember how posters from Pak went hyperbolic during the aftermath of the Osama raid. That ISI personnel were there during the raid, someone's uncle was there. Duh! The only uncles that night in Abbotabad, Pakistan were members of Navy Seals Team 6.
          Last edited by Oracle; 19 Nov 20,, 15:39.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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          • India carrying out 'pinpoint strikes' on terror launchpads inside PoK: Govt sources
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Till now this has been denied by the government sources

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              • Originally posted by kuku View Post
                Till now this has been denied by the government sources
                TOI doesn't post fake news. This is the first time I have come across a news, that is fake. Don't know where they picked it up from.

                News reports of Army action in PoK fake: DGMO
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                • 4 JeM terrorists were killed yesterday.

                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

                    TOI doesn't post fake news. This is the first time I have come across a news, that is fake. Don't know where they picked it up from.

                    News reports of Army action in PoK fake: DGMO
                    Possibly planted for some other reason.
                    media management, they depend on sources for their news and these sources are controlled by government agencies

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                    • Chinese hand in ISI''s Gilgit-Baltistan move hits separatists

                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                      • hell all of these looser investments and the efforts to protect them.

                        PRC is going to run out of all its monies like this.

                        Just keep adding fuel to fire and in 30 years these will be very good roads for shepherds to take their sheep and goats to grazing lands.
                        dumbasses.
                        Last edited by kuku; 20 Nov 20,, 17:52.

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                        • Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                          • For now maybe this is true. But the French love money, they'll soon sell all and every weapon they can to Pakistan.

                            With Biden coming into USA we need to be watchful.

                            Democrats may very soon provide high end electronic warfare equipment to screw our capabilities to carryout strikes.

                            We should've signed on for a couple of squadrons of the F-35 while trump was in office.
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                            • Originally posted by kuku View Post
                              For now maybe this is true. But the French love money, they'll soon sell all and every weapon they can to Pakistan.

                              With Biden coming into USA we need to be watchful.

                              Democrats may very soon provide high end electronic warfare equipment to screw our capabilities to carryout strikes.

                              We should've signed on for a couple of squadrons of the F-35 while trump was in office.
                              ​​​​​

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                              France is our only real strategic defence partner. Israel comes second. Even if France decides to one day update Pak's old weaponry, it still will be behind what India has in terms of technology acquired from France.

                              The days of Pak getting free weapons are over. India has bi-partisan support in US. Pak might get a nut or a bolt, now and then, but democrats are not going to test their relation with India by gifting Pakistan weapons. This is done.

                              To get F-35, India needs to first buy Shornets or the F-21, 114 of them, create an aircraft manufacturing ecosystem.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                              • France and Israel are opportunistic partners, like everyone else.
                                Neither Russia, France nor Israel has any long-term strategic problems from Pakistan or China.

                                No one on earth likes selling weapons to India without having very fat margins, lots of work little chance of success.

                                Under democrats, i do not think we have a chance of getting the F-35s.
                                But if we tried under Trump we could have bypassed F-18s/21s and gone for 2 squadrons of F-35s to get the military edge we need against Pakistan.
                                We could have made a bundle deal with lots of weapon systems, he loved big announcements.
                                But then again, i do not know how it works in US, and who is really in charge of these things. If we made a big package with F-35s Trump would have lobbied for us as much as he could.


                                My fear is that the democrats will sell high-end EW and AAW equipment to Pakistan and make our pilots pay with blood. Hopefully the republicans are able to stop them.

                                Don't ever forget that during the Balakot, all the damage was done by US EW and AAM's, not Chinese ones.
                                Last edited by kuku; 21 Nov 20,, 14:19.

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