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  • Indian government furious at BBC over broadcast of gang-rape documentary

    "It's her fault and she shouldn't have resisted."

    Indian government furious at BBC over broadcast of gang-rape documentary
    Indian government threatens action against BBC over gang-rape documentary | World news | The Guardian
    Delhi outraged at screening of India’s Daughter film, which included interview with Mukesh Singh – rapist who fatally attacked student Jyoti Singh in 2012
    India's Daughter: Storyville: Candle-lit vigils were held throughout India to commemorate the death of Jyoti Singh after she was gang-raped on a bus in Delhi.
    India’s Daughter was broadcast in the UK on Wednesday. Photograph: BBC/Assassin Films

    India’s home minister has threatened to take action against the BBC for broadcasting a documentary about the fatal gang-rape of a woman in New Delhi, in spite of the Delhi government’s protests.

    India’s Daughter was to have been shown on Sunday, International Women’s Day, in India and several other countries, until police and the government got a court order that halted the screening.

    BBC4 aired the documentary, about the brutal rape in December 2012 of 23-year-old physiotherapy student Jyoti Singh, in the UK on Wednesday night, where it was watched by nearly 300,000 people.

    Home ministry spokesman MA Ganapathy told AFP the Indian government had asked YouTube to block links to the film in India after large numbers of people viewed it online.

    Some links to the film could still be seen in India on Thursday afternoon, but many appeared to be blocked.

    The film has sparked a fierce debate in India because it includes an interview in which one of the convicted rapists, Mukesh Singh, blamed his victim – saying she should not have been out at night and should not have fought back.

    India’s home minister, Rajnath Singh, did not specify what steps the government would take against the BBC, only that “all options are open”.

    Mukesh Singh, who drove the bus on which the woman was raped and murdered, appears in the film, unapologetic for his crime. He told the film-maker, Leslee Udwin: “A decent girl won’t roam around at nine o’clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy.”
    Delhi rape: how India's other half lives
    Read more

    In a revealing interview, he added: “When being raped, she shouldn’t fight back. She should just be silent and allow the rape. Then they’d have dropped her off after ‘doing her’, and only hit the boy.”
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    Jyoti Singh’s father, Badri, said on Thursday that he thought everyone should be able to watch the documentary to understand “the bitter truth” about his daughter’s death.

    “Everyone should watch the film,” he told the news channel NDTV. “If a man can speak like that in jail, imagine what he would say if he was walking free,” he said.

    The victim’s mother, Asha, told NDTV, which was due to broadcast the film along with the BBC on Sunday, that she did not object to the ban and believed Singh’s views were widespread in India.

    “I don’t care what the government does – bans the film, doesn’t ban the film – the only thing I know is that nobody is afraid,” she said. “It is not only Mukesh who thinks like this.”

    The BBC defended the broadcast, which seeks to explore the crime and the cultural context in which it was committed. A spokesman said: “This harrowing documentary, made with the full support and cooperation of the victim’s parents, provides a revealing insight into a horrific crime that sent shockwaves around the world and led to protests across India demanding changes in attitudes towards women.

    “The film handles the issue responsibly and we are confident the programme fully complies with our editorial guidelines. The documentary has the backing of a number of other public service broadcasters. However, the BBC is only responsible for transmission of the film in the UK.”

    Four of the men await the outcome of a final appeal and face the death sentence, a fifth killed himself in prison, while a juvenile convicted over the gang-rape and murder is due for release in December this year.
    Ban on Delhi gang-rape documentary stirs fierce debate in India
    By Web Desk
    Published: March 5, 2015
    Ban on Delhi gang-rape documentary stirs fierce debate in India – The Express Tribune

    Indian parliamentarians, journalists and the father of a woman who died after a savage gang-rape in Delhi in 2012, urged the government on Thursday to lift the ban on a documentary about the attack.

    A day earlier, an Indian court banned the country’s media from broadcasting the BBC documentary India’s Daughter in which one of the men who raped and murdered a New Delhi student is shown blaming the victim. The Indian parliament, however, was split over the decision on whether to allow the viewing or not.

    Read: India bans broadcast of gang-rapist documentary

    As Home Minister Rajnath Singh said in the Rajya Sabha (uppher house of the Indian Parliament) that a restraining order had been obtained against the screening and called for a probe as to how the rapist was allowed to be interviewed inside the prison, many members questioned the move, including renowned poet and MP Javed Akhtar.

    Angered by Singh’s stance, Akhtar rose in Parliament questioning why the documentary was being deemed offensive when he had heard similar things in the House.

    “I have heard such things in the house. If a woman wears such clothes and if a woman goes out late at night then she is inviting trouble’,” he lashed out.

    “It’s good this documentary has been made so people in India know they think like the rapist. If any one finds it objectionable, they should change their mindset,” Akhtar added.



    Watch the heated debate here:



    The film has sparked a fierce debate in India as it includes an interview in which one of the convicted rapists, Mukesh Singh, blamed the 23-year-old victim, saying she should not have been out at night and should not have fought back.

    Read: A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy, says Delhi bus rapist

    Objecting to the ban, the father of the victim, who cannot be named, said the comments should be exposed publicly.

    “Everyone should watch the film,” NDTV quoted him as saying.

    “If a man can speak like that in jail, imagine what he would say if he was walking free,” he said, describing the documentary as “the bitter truth”.

    The victim’s mother told NDTV she did not object to the ban but believed Singh’s views were widespread in India.

    “I don’t care what the government does, bans the film, doesn’t ban the film, the only thing I know is that nobody is afraid,” she said.

    “It is not only Mukesh who thinks like this.”

    However, separately, the family objected against revealing their daughter’s identity in the BBC documentary, according to the Times of India.

    “Despite clearly telling them not to make the name and photo of our daughter public, they have gone ahead with it and this is not right.. we will take legal action against this,” the father of the victim told Press Trust of India.

    Part of the backlash against the film stems from the notion that coverage of Singh’s point of view and his startling lack of remorse, turn him into a convenient scapegoat for a much bigger problem. But it also reflects a growing effort by Indian women to take the war against sexual objectification and violence into their hands.

    “The filmmakers are saying that [blocking the broadcast] will silence the grim reality of rape culture in India. But there is already a very loud conversation in India about this grim reality,” said Kavita Krishnan, secretary of the All India Progressive Women’s Assn, according to the Business Standard.

    “It is not limited to the Mukesh Singh interview. The rape culture lies with all of us. It lies very widely among society at large. Reducing it to this one man and this one film is not the answer.”

    Buzzfeed India’s editor Regha Jha also took to social media to voice her opinion against the ban.

    Indian authorities reacted fiercely to the documentary, not only banning it but claiming they would take legal action against the filmmaker, Leslee Udwin, charging that she violated the agreement under which she was permitted to interview Singh at New Delhi’s Tihar Jail.

    India’s Parliamentary Affairs Minister M Venkaiah Naidu declared: “We can ban the film in India. But this is an international conspiracy to defame India. We will see how the film can be stopped abroad too.

    In response, Udwin released copies of the authorisation from the Ministry of Home Affairs and a letter from Singh saying he agreed to be interviewed. She further appealed to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi to intervene.

    “India should be embracing this film – not blocking it with a kneejerk hysteria without even seeing it. This was an opportunity for India to continue to show the world how much has changed since this heinous crime. Sadly … the banning of the film will see India isolated in the eyes of the world. It’s a counterproductive move,” she said in her appeal, according to The Guardian.

    To some, it seemed as though government officials were more troubled by the documentary, which they had not seen, than by the incident that led to it.

    “The reality is [that] what the man spoke reflects the views of many men in India, and why are we shying away from that?” said Anu Aga, an Indian businesswoman and lawmaker in the Rajya Sabha, LA Times reported.

    Banning the movie “is not the answer,” Aga said. “We have to confront the issue that men in India do not respect women. And anytime there is a rape, blame is placed on the woman …. It is the views of many men in India. Let’s be aware of it, and let’s not pretend that all is well.”

    Yet many activists resented the idea that a foreign-made documentary was needed to highlight the problem. However, others feel publically speaking against these issues has strengthened women to seek action against sexual harassment.

    Last month, after a man allegedly harassed a young woman sitting next to him on a domestic flight, she turned her cellphone camera on him, berating him in a video that went viral.

    Read: Because I’m a girl: Indian woman slams alleged harasser on plane

    “Because I’m a girl, you think you can get away with this?” she questioned.

    A rape is reported on average every 21 minutes in India while acid attacks, domestic violence and molestation are also common.

    “As a woman, I know women are undervalued, that men accord us not enough respect or value,” said Udwin, a rape victim herself.

    India’s Daughter was embroiled in a separate controversy after a newspaper alleged the documentary was filmed without the permission of Tihar jail authorities. Udwin denied this.

    The BBC on Wednesday night telecast India’s Daughter in the UK and other countries, according to NDTV.

    The documentary was to be aired in several countries, including India, on March 8, which is International Women’s Day. But a statement from the BBC said given the “intense level of interest”, they brought the transmission forward.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  • #2
    Defence lawyers blame Nirbhaya for rape
    Abhinav Garg, TNN | Mar 4, 2015, 09.25AM IST
    inShare
    Defence lawyers blame Nirbhaya for rape
    While the Nirbhaya documentary shows the rapists blaming the woman, some of the defence lawyers in the case have been no less upfront in accusing her for the crime.
    NEW DELHI: While the Nirbhaya documentary shows the rapists blaming the woman, some of the defence lawyers in the case have been no less upfront in accusing her for the crime. Speaking to TOI, advocate ML Sharma stood by the statements he made in the interview.

    "If you keep sweets on the street then dogs will come and eat them. Why did Nirbhaya's parents send her with anyone that late at night? He was not her boyfriend. Is it not the parents' responsibility to keep an eye on where she goes and with whom?" said advocate ML Sharma, confirming the statement he made in the documentary. Sharma trashed the interview saying there is "no legal value" in it. "They came for eight or nine days to interview me but I was never shown the finished version.Yes, I said that Indian culture is the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for a woman," he added.

    READ ALSO: Nirbhaya made filmmaker confront own demons

    Another defence laywer AP Singh condemned airing of the documentary saying that it amounts to media trial."When the documentary makers came to me to speak to my clients we went to the jail but the superintendent refused to let them meet the convicts. It needs to be probed how the filmmakers managed to speak to them. They had earlier interviewed me in 2013," Singh said.

    READ ALSO: Huge row over interview of Nirbhaya's rapist, Delhi Police register case

    Stay updated on the go with Times of India News App. Click here to download it for your dev
    Defence lawyers blame Nirbhaya for rape - The Times of India
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

    Comment


    • #3
      I was waiting for someone to post this thread and no surprise that it was Troung.

      Anyway, I am somewhat glad that this interview happened because it confirmed for real that Indian police caught the bad guys and did not simply arrest a group of people that happened to be there at the wrong place at the wrong time. It showed that Indian justice worked exactly the way it was supposed to do.

      I think the government should allow the broadcast of the interview so to generate disgust and anger at the attitude displayed by the lowest piece of scum that walked on earth and confirm that the death penalty is the right punishment and to shut up those stupid bloviating human righters who protect against the death penalty.

      By the way, I think those defense lawyers need to be disbarred for making those kind of statements. Those kind of attitude has no traction and does not belong to somebody who has sworn an oath to uphold the law and yes lawyers are required to take those oaths.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        I was waiting for someone to post this thread and no surprise that it was Troung.

        Anyway, I am somewhat glad that this interview happened because it confirmed for real that Indian police caught the bad guys and did not simply arrest a group of people that happened to be there at the wrong place at the wrong time. It showed that Indian justice worked exactly the way it was supposed to do.

        I think the government should allow the broadcast of the interview so to generate disgust and anger at the attitude displayed by the lowest piece of scum that walked on earth and confirm that the death penalty is the right punishment and to shut up those stupid bloviating human righters who protect against the death penalty.

        By the way, I think those defense lawyers need to be disbarred for making those kind of statements. Those kind of attitude has no traction and does not belong to somebody who has sworn an oath to uphold the law and yes lawyers are required to take those oaths.
        The documentary is supposed to focus on the Indian society and some of the thought process that lead to cases like Nirbhaya.

        If we are going to analyse the deep racial polarisation within the US society, with issues like the Fergusson case, regressive male attitudes in India is fair game too

        Javed Akhtar, always a master with words, said it beautifully in his parliamentary speech : "It's good this documentary has been made. If any one finds it objectionable, they should change their mindset."

        Javed Akhtar & Kirron Kher Make The Most Powerful Comments On The Nirbhaya Documentary
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • #5
          Outrage Over Defence Lawyers' Comments in Nirbhaya Documentary

          Other lawyers are seeking disbarment against those defense lawyers who made those unacceptable comments.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wanted to continue this in minskaya's thread titled outrage as the title is pretty apt to the current developments. Listen to what what the filmmaker has to say.



            Already watched the doc as its all over youtube. It was less graphic than reading the actual judgement posted in that thread. still needed a drink after

            One of the guys took steroids, roid rage strikes again.

            Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
            I think the government should allow the broadcast of the interview so to generate disgust and anger at the attitude displayed by the lowest piece of scum that walked on earth and confirm that the death penalty is the right punishment and to shut up those stupid bloviating human righters who protect against the death penalty.
            Don't know what the govt is up to maybe its a diversionary tactic.

            as to death penalty being the right punsihement ? lol, maybe you should watch the documentary, the guy says if there is death penalty then the rape victim dies. This btw is a point made numerous times for why not to have a death penalty. So isn't news to me.

            Dead people don't talk! How do you catch the perps. maybe you do maybe you don't.

            To hang a murderer is to create another - Dok

            By the way, I think those defense lawyers need to be disbarred for making those kind of statements. Those kind of attitude has no traction and does not belong to somebody who has sworn an oath to uphold the law and yes lawyers are required to take those oaths.
            It's crazy to hear things like that come from them. If lawyers say these things and stand by them then that just affirms the problem is much deeper than we think.

            Or maybe they have to back their clients to the hilt.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Mar 15,, 23:41.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              Wanted to continue this in minskaya's thread titled outrage as the title is pretty apt to the current developments. Listen to what what the filmmaker has to say.



              Already watched the doc as its all over youtube. It was less graphic than reading the actual judgement posted in that thread. still needed a drink after

              One of the guys took steroids, roid rage strikes again.


              Don't know what the govt is up to maybe its a diversionary tactic.

              as to death penalty being the right punsihement ? lol, maybe you should watch the documentary, the guy says if there is death penalty then the rape victim dies. This btw is a point made numerous times for why not to have a death penalty. So isn't news to me.

              Dead people don't talk! How do you catch the perps. maybe you do maybe you don't.

              To hang a murderer is to create another - Dok


              It's crazy to hear things like that come from them. If lawyers say these things and stand by them then that just affirms the problem is much deeper than we think.

              Or maybe they have to back their clients to the hilt.
              I don't know what to make the above statement of yours so in the interest of being civil and not showing contempt, I will remain polite in responding to your post, no matter how misguided it was.

              Death is the right punishment and I don't believe in that statement, "To hang a murderer is to create another" We might as well go ahead and submit to rapists and murderers because we don't want to be murderers so it is better to let them do whatever they want. I do not agree with that assessment. By the way, we caught all the perps so hanging them is not going to deprive us of further justice.

              This scum didn't think he did wrong. Well, scum, that feeling you get around your neck is a surefire way of telling you that what you did was wrong and it will send that message across the entire population that this sort of thing is just not acceptable at all.

              The state has a right to kill that person if that person has become a danger to society and killing that purpose achieve an acceptable state goal such as deterring further crimes or setting down the attitude that rape or violence during the commission of rape is not acceptable at all and that every victim has the right to fight back and protect his/her dignity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                I don't know what to make the above statement of yours so in the interest of being civil and not showing contempt, I will remain polite in responding to your post, no matter how misguided it was.
                I don't care whether people like or dislike what i say, all i'm interested is in counters.

                Death is the right punishment and I don't believe in that statement, "To hang a murderer is to create another"
                why ?

                We might as well go ahead and submit to rapists and murderers because we don't want to be murderers so it is better to let them do whatever they want. I do not agree with that assessment. By the way, we caught all the perps so hanging them is not going to deprive us of further justice.
                You don't submit to them, all you have to do is apprehend and incarcerate them. That isn't easy to do. One of the guys committed suicide, it doesn't deter them.

                You've not replied to my point about killing the victim. This already happens to a certain extent anyway. it will become more common now. Better dead than raped ?

                This scum didn't think he did wrong. Well, scum, that feeling you get around your neck is a surefire way of telling you that what you did was wrong and it will send that message across the entire population that this sort of thing is just not acceptable at all.
                You'll have to catch them first. biggest fear is if the guy does not get convicted he will come back and kill you. we had a thread where just that happened.

                The state has a right to kill that person if that person has become a danger to society and killing that purpose achieve an acceptable state goal such as deterring further crimes or setting down the attitude that rape or violence during the commission of rape is not acceptable at all and that every victim has the right to fight back and protect his/her dignity.
                No, they don't. we're just conditioned into believing that. I say bang them up for a long time. when they're done let them go.

                where do you live ? is it canada or the US i can't tell. you want to tell me the number of states there that have a death penalty for this sort of thing. because in the US its the minority and give it enough time will turn into an even bigger one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well I was thinking why this topic hadn't surfaced here yet.
                  Although I was expecting DE to post it on the indian censorship thread.

                  The attitude described in the docu is pretty common, Its just that more people are smart enough to hide it nowadays.

                  I personally think that lifelong imprisonment is the way to go. If we impose death penalty it ensures that rapists will kill their victims instead.

                  Also...
                  where do you live ? is it canada or the US i can't tell
                  Better not to go there, in every previous case the threads went to hell with rampant grudge posting.
                  For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                    Well I was thinking why this topic hadn't surfaced here yet.
                    Me too. I was considering it, but I didn't feel much like dealing with the implications of racism that would inevitably have followed from the usual suspects. Maybe I would have felt more up to it next week.

                    The attitude described in the docu is pretty common, Its just that more people are smart enough to hide it nowadays.
                    As disturbing as the attitudes of the rapist/murderer were, the attitudes of the lawyers were scarier. Supposedly educated men who think stuff like this is OK to say in public:

                    AP Singh had previously said that if his sister or daughter “disgraced herself” by being seen with a man, he would “to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight”.

                    Another defence lawyer in the case, ML Sharma, said: “In our society, we never allow our girls to come out from the house after 6.30 or 7.30 or 8.30 in the evening with any unknown person.

                    “You are talking about man and woman as friends. Sorry, that doesn't have any place in our society. We have the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for a woman.”
                    Like something straight out of Saudi Arabia.

                    Delhi bus rapist blames dead victim for attack because 'girls are responsible for rape' - Asia - World - The Independent

                    I personally think that lifelong imprisonment is the way to go. If we impose death penalty it ensures that rapists will kill their victims instead.
                    I'm opposed to the death penalty in all situations for other reasons, though the incentive it gives to silence potential witnesses is worth pointing out.

                    Also...
                    Better not to go there, in every previous case the threads went to hell with rampant grudge posting.
                    Unfortunately the 'grudge posting' started early in this thread. Well before DE got here. Apparently the topic invites it.

                    In this case I think he was asking a genuine question because he was looking to make a comparison.
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                      Well I was thinking why this topic hadn't surfaced here yet.
                      Although I was expecting DE to post it on the indian censorship thread.
                      troung was quicker :)

                      The only semi-credible argument i've heard as to why this documentary should not be aired is that there is a pending appeal in the supreme court so it would be sub judice. I'm not sure whether that holds much.

                      Better not to go there, in every previous case the threads went to hell with rampant grudge posting.
                      hah no, i'm not going where you think, the intent was to show what the countries he lives in think about the death penalty.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                        As disturbing as the attitudes of the rapist/murderer were, the attitudes of the lawyers were scarier. Supposedly educated men who think stuff like this is OK to say in public:
                        Right so its kinda ironic when the GOI says there are statements made in this documentary that offend the sentiments of women. We had a number of opposition politicians create a stink over this. its all quite strange & contradictory.

                        The real point is being missed, people get stopped with the atrocity of the attack, what the producer wants to highlight is the mindset that lead to the attack. Why is so much fuss being made over this case when rapes happen all the time. THAT is what India needs to introspect about.

                        These guys think women should not aspire to anything more than housekeeping. They all came from slums so that's a women's lot over there. That Jyothi was an aspiring doctor, out at night with a male friend, who actively fought them when they confronted her was what sent them over the edge. You can't get this from the court that sentenced them. This is an insight into the minds of these people which is what i was more interested in.

                        It's a real slap against the aspiring young who put politicians in office these days.

                        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                        Unfortunately the 'grudge posting' started early in this thread. Well before DE got here. Apparently the topic invites it.
                        well the idea behind posting that clip is for those people to actually watch the documentary instead of parroting out what they heard. make up their own minds. I think she makes it very clear what her intentions were behind making this documentary.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Mar 15,, 04:46.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Don't see why the movie is banned? Don't see any reason at all.
                          But this is a stupid nation that banned books of all things.

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Was there a need for any of this(to make a docu and for the govt to block it?)?

                              All time pass and no work

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