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  • #61
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    But who the hell said anything about killing Bose? There was no assassination attempt nor was he a primary target even for the Brits. If captured, he would face the books but there was no special glee for his demise. There were far more important targets to be achieved and I hate to burst more myths for you but Bose was extremely low on the list of target priorities. Hell, he's even off the list.
    Bigfella seemed quite gleeful at the prospect of Bose having been snuffed by Stalin. That is what I am talking about

    the rest of the history, we have already gone over
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Great Britain was NOT reduced to a 2nd rate power. She was still far more than capable of launching offensives of her choosing and she won both the Battle of the Atlantic and the Battle of Britain.
      Still, couldn't hold on to India and calm the various mutinies breaking out down.

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      And shift the capital of the British Empire from London to Dehli ... but that is another thread.
      Still essentially remain British.

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      How about just the easiest one? Convince British Indian soldiers to stay at home, not to join up. What's the Brits going to do? Send an army? From where?
      The other nationalist leaders were trying to do that to no success.

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Because you're getting sidetracked from the reasons to the actual conduct of the war.

      To save Japan from extreme punishing occupation. To sate American, Chinese, British, Korean, and Australian blood lust.
      And all these were okay killing ~1000 Japanese 2nd/3rd in command, but didn't raise a finger on the supreme authority. The one man they all suffered because of?

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Yes, he did. The INA actively sought to use Burma as the spring board into India and to deny Burma from the Allies which was of vital importance to keep China in the war.
      And if USA had agreed to liberate India, this situation would not have arisen!

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      The US was not a member of CENTO.
      As I said, very convenient and shrewd.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        Still, couldn't hold on to India and calm the various mutinies breaking out down.
        Again, so what? The writing was on the wall after the initial military disasters of WWI. The largest army within the British Empire without a political voice was not going to last forever. Indian Independence or Dominance within the British Empire was inevitable.

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        Still essentially remain British.
        And your point is? Do you know how many Princes and Princesses you have that can marry into the Royal Family and start Indianizing the House of Windsor?

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        The other nationalist leaders were trying to do that to no success.
        Let me get this straight. No one could have stopped 2.5 million Indian men from fighting for the British crown. And you thought Bose had a chance in hell of defeating this army?

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        And all these were okay killing ~1000 Japanese 2nd/3rd in command,
        Try 2.5 million+ and at least 10 million wounded.

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        but didn't raise a finger on the supreme authority. The one man they all suffered because of?
        If you are referring to the Japanese, the one man responsible, Hideki Tojo, was hanged.

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        And if USA had agreed to liberate India, this situation would not have arisen!
        Now, why would the US want to do that? Doing what she did, she had a 2.5 million man British Indian Army fighting along her side. Doing what you suggest, at best, she would have 45K man Indian National Army that she now had to equipped. I say siding with Bose would have been an idiotic dumb mistake.

        Originally posted by popillol View Post
        As I said, very convenient and shrewd.
        You're blaming the Americans for not coming to an alliance that never existed. You're reaching.
        Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 13 Jan 15,, 05:29.
        Chimo

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        • #64
          Bose's legacy remains unfinished beyond india

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          • #65
            Originally posted by anil View Post
            Bose's legacy remains unfinished beyond india
            Exactly. No one knows whether he was devoured by the wolves in Siberia or the crows in Formosa.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • #66
              The man fought against a colonial power and its likes. Off course the west is going to hate him.

              Though bose himself didn't live to see indias independence, his legacy(war against colonialism) should not be limited to india.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                Again, so what? The writing was on the wall after the initial military disasters of WWI. The largest army within the British Empire without a political voice was not going to last forever. Indian Independence or Dominance within the British Empire was inevitable.
                Well someone forgot to tell the British that it was inevitable. They were doing pretty well handling Gandhi and co. and keeping British power in India strong in the 20's and 30's. Gandhi and the INC had succeeded in uniting a large section of Indians behind their banner but their methods of resistance and protest had been singularly unsuccessful in forcing the British hand. Gandhi's movements for civil disobedience and the like were failures. The Brits were clever enough to be seen to mollify Gandhi without actually giving up any power. Who knows how long they could have continued this? It might sound distasteful, but the reality remains that WW2 and the damage that Britain suffered in it was a godsend for India. Bose merely tried to take advantage of the situation. He probably knew his position was hopeless vis a vis the BIA and was counting on inspiring BIA soldiers to mutiny when they faced their own countrymen in battle. At least he knew what he was fighting for.

                And your point is? Do you know how many Princes and Princesses you have that can marry into the Royal Family and start Indianizing the House of Windsor?
                Oh come on! The royal family would have never allowed it.

                Let me get this straight. No one could have stopped 2.5 million Indian men from fighting for the British crown. And you thought Bose had a chance in hell of defeating this army?
                He didn't. That's why he turned to the Japanese, the only British enemy in the neighborhood. Maybe that was the wrong choice but I don't blame him for trying. At least he got off his backside and did something, unlike certain others who did nothing besides shouting Quit India and then tried to stop Indian Soldiers from mutinying.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by anil View Post
                  The man fought against a colonial power and its likes. Off course the west is going to hate him.
                  That's just it. The West doesn't even know him. In the scheme of things, the INA did not rate. While there was a concern amongst the British, Kawabe and the IJA was easily a 100 times more important.

                  Originally posted by anil View Post
                  Though bose himself didn't live to see indias independence, his legacy(war against colonialism) should not be limited to india.
                  By siding with the 2nd worst colonial power in the 20th Century? Bose is limited to India. Not even Japan knows or cares about him.
                  Chimo

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    Well someone forgot to tell the British that it was inevitable.
                    The Cripps mission told everyone that the Brits had nothing left but looking for a way out.

                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    Oh come on! The royal family would have never allowed it.
                    DNA tests show Duke of Cambridge 'has Indian ancestry' - Telegraph

                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    He didn't. That's why he turned to the Japanese, the only British enemy in the neighborhood. Maybe that was the wrong choice but I don't blame him for trying. At least he got off his backside and did something, unlike certain others who did nothing besides shouting Quit India and then tried to stop Indian Soldiers from mutinying.
                    Or he could have done a Tito.
                    Chimo

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Again, so what? The writing was on the wall after the initial military disasters of WWI. The largest army within the British Empire without a political voice was not going to last forever. Indian Independence or Dominance within the British Empire was inevitable.

                      And your point is? Do you know how many Princes and Princesses you have that can marry into the Royal Family and start Indianizing the House of Windsor?
                      Still, the "empire" will essentially be a British one. They conquered it.


                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Let me get this straight. No one could have stopped 2.5 million Indian men from fighting for the British crown. And you thought Bose had a chance in hell of defeating this army?
                      And that is the precise reason why BIA is not remebered in India. They fought for the British crown. And then you lament that Indians do not honour/remember them.

                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Try 2.5 million+ and at least 10 million wounded.
                      If you are referring to the Japanese, the one man responsible, Hideki Tojo, was hanged.
                      Really can't see how Hirohito is innocent to you. Will have to research on him.

                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Now, why would the US want to do that? Doing what she did, she had a 2.5 million man British Indian Army fighting along her side. Doing what you suggest, at best, she would have 45K man Indian National Army that she now had to equipped. I say siding with Bose would have been an idiotic dumb mistake.
                      So, essentially BIA had British masters. So sorry to say they will not be honoured in India.

                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      You're blaming the Americans for not coming to an alliance that never existed. You're reaching.
                      The Americans were not able to budge Indira because she had decent backing unlike Bose.

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                      • #71
                        And you said in post #16, "Hitler and Hirohito" implying that you hold Hirohito to be the primary person responsible for the atrocoties still when talked about his trials you say who cares?!!! Really can't understand you.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          The Cripps mission told everyone that the Brits had nothing left but looking for a way out.
                          Cripps Mission was in 42, after the war began (and it wasn't going very well at the time). Why do you think I called WW2 a godsend?

                          And Cripps only promised Dominion status, not independence after the war. We had only his word that it would happen. The Brits could have changed their mind depending on how and when the war ended. And it wouldn't even have come to this, if WW2 hadn't hapened. The ststua quo of the 20's and 30's would have continued.

                          DNA tests show Duke of Cambridge 'has Indian ancestry' - Telegraph
                          So one of his ancestors slept with a housekeeper. What does that prove? You can't jump from that to Indian Princesses marrying into the Royal family. I'm not sure what that would accomplish anyway as far as Indian Independence was concerned.

                          Or he could have done a Tito.
                          There were others who tried that. British power in India had been cemented over a hundred years. The number of collaborators was huge. Not surprising considering the economic situation and the fact that government, law-enforcement and military jobs paid far better than anything else. Armed resistance movements could never have been as successful as the ones in France and other countries newly occupied by the Germans. Gandhi and the INC being opposed to any armed resistance made things worse.

                          What Bose tried was no different from what Degaulle did. His own country was occupied by a foreign power. Some of his countrymen were collaborating with the enemy (the number was much higher in India for reasons stated above). So he decided to take the help of the enemy of that occupying power to invade his own country. Unfortunately, the only enemy avaiable were the Japanese, whose intentions (we now know) were different from what they professed to Bose and who were ultimately not strong enough to beat the British.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            Still, the "empire" will essentially be a British one. They conquered it.
                            No, they didn't conquered it. They got stuck with it with the mess of the British India Company and your various principalities trying to take advantage of the BIC's mercenary operations.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            And that is the precise reason why BIA is not remebered in India. They fought for the British crown. And then you lament that Indians do not honour/remember them.
                            Because they saved your ass.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            Really can't see how Hirohito is innocent to you. Will have to research on him.
                            He's not innocent. If you're asking do I think that he should be shot, yes, whole heartily but that is NOT what happenned and trying to substitute what you want for the facts is complete dishonesty.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            So, essentially BIA had British masters.
                            And here you go trying to change the subject when the facts don't give you support. The Americans would be idiots to support Bose.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            So sorry to say they will not be honoured in India.
                            That's fine. I will.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            The Americans were not able to budge Indira because she had decent backing unlike Bose.
                            Again, you don't know the facts. The Americans were damned busy with something called Vietnam. They couldn't take on India even if they wanted to.

                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            And you said in post #16, "Hitler and Hirohito" implying that you hold Hirohito to be the primary person responsible for the atrocoties still when talked about his trials you say who cares?!!! Really can't understand you.
                            I am discussing the history. What actually happenned and what it meant. Not what I wanted to happen and then trying to shove that fiction down everyone's throat.
                            Chimo

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              Cripps Mission was in 42, after the war began (and it wasn't going very well at the time). Why do you think I called WW2 a godsend?
                              I am discussing this within context of WWII. The Brits did not have another army to quell India and take on Germany and Japan at the same time.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              And Cripps only promised Dominion status, not independence after the war. We had only his word that it would happen. The Brits could have changed their mind depending on how and when the war ended. And it wouldn't even have come to this, if WW2 hadn't hapened. The ststua quo of the 20's and 30's would have continued.
                              Gandhi and Congress read Cripps right. He came begging with a beggars bowl. To seek co-operation when all the cards were in Indian hands. They needed the British Indian Army and Indians are well capable of denying that army to London. The only thing that they can offer is to give India her self determination peacefully.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              So one of his ancestors slept with a housekeeper. What does that prove? You can't jump from that to Indian Princesses marrying into the Royal family.
                              The House of Windsor is German. Prince Phillip is Greek. Dianna dated a Pakistani and an Eygtian. They're not as closed as you think.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              I'm not sure what that would accomplish anyway as far as Indian Independence was concerned.
                              The context is the Indian domination of the British Empire, shifting the centre of power from London to Dehli.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              There were others who tried that. British power in India had been cemented over a hundred years. The number of collaborators was huge. Not surprising considering the economic situation and the fact that government, law-enforcement and military jobs paid far better than anything else. Armed resistance movements could never have been as successful as the ones in France and other countries newly occupied by the Germans. Gandhi and the INC being opposed to any armed resistance made things worse.
                              Palestine did it.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              What Bose tried was no different from what Degaulle did. His own country was occupied by a foreign power. Some of his countrymen were collaborating with the enemy (the number was much higher in India for reasons stated above). So he decided to take the help of the enemy of that occupying power to invade his own country. Unfortunately, the only enemy avaiable were the Japanese, whose intentions (we now know) were different from what they professed to Bose and who were ultimately not strong enough to beat the British.
                              France was knocked out of the war and was not a key player during the war. India was.
                              Chimo

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by popillol View Post
                                And that is the precise reason why BIA is not remebered in India. They fought for the British crown. And then you lament that Indians do not honour/remember them.
                                This says a lot. You are a fucking idiot! The BIA saved you from the IJE and you have absolutely zero clue what that meant! This being the WAB and not a BJP mouthpiece, I will say this. You did not deserve what the BIA has done for you, you fucking idiot!

                                Oh btw, VSDOC, fuck you!
                                Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 14 Jan 15,, 06:39.
                                Chimo

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