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21 killed as terrorists stage serial attacks to disrupt Kashmir polls

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  • #76
    Originally posted by commander View Post
    and you would rather treat Kasab's with Biriyani's and kebab's ?
    I think I very specifically said no to that.

    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    I am not saying that they should be given teddy bears at night and chocolate milk by day
    Originally posted by commander View Post
    I get your point AM, it's human nature to abuse any kind of power if he knows he can get away with it. Even a peon in my local panchayat (village) office will ask for bribe for me to see the VAO. So it's not about how much power but rather the power itself that can be abused no matter how small it is. You gotta appoint right men for the right job and pray as hell they don't abuse their given powers.
    No, right men will get corrupted the moment checks and balances are removed. The only solution is to make the systems themselves immune to corruption. NO Torture, install CCTV cameras in stations that can be reviewed by courts if SHTF.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    • #77
      Originally posted by commander View Post
      Antimony, hence I have highlighted only if they were terrorists. Those scums kill innocent women, children just so they can terrorize. I don't mind how the terrorists (read: real terrorists) are treated.
      Do you think "real terrorists" walk around with tags on their foreheads reading "real terrorist"? The real world isn't quite as simple. After 2001, many innocent men who had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and Taliban were trawled up in Afghanistan and tortured in Guantanamo. A real miscarriage of justice.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by cataphract View Post
        Do you think "real terrorists" walk around with tags on their foreheads reading "real terrorist"? The real world isn't quite as simple. After 2001, many innocent men who had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and Taliban were trawled up in Afghanistan and tortured in Guantanamo. A real miscarriage of justice.
        Did I say that CIA can run around torturing all the people it can lay it's eye's on? I only talked about the terrorists, don't twist my words. Again IF they are terrorists they deserve the kind of treatment they received. Period. Not the innocent one's.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by commander View Post
          Did I say that CIA can run around torturing all the people it can lay it's eye's on? I only talked about the terrorists, don't twist my words. Again IF they are terrorists they deserve the kind of treatment they received. Period. Not the innocent one's.
          Who the hell are these terrorists? Does this include the mother/sister/wife of the suicide bomber? Even when their facebook pages support Al Queida?
          Chimo

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          • #80
            Originally posted by commander View Post
            Did I say that CIA can run around torturing all the people it can lay it's eye's on? I only talked about the terrorists, don't twist my words. Again IF they are terrorists they deserve the kind of treatment they received. Period. Not the innocent one's.
            Read the paper, as a result of a US senate report detailing use of torture on detainees. The CIA chief is in the dock. That's where its coming from.

            LT, this is yet another fine example of of how the USG treats its soldiers. First they say get the bad guys, then it becomes why did you do this. All these arguments were raised years ago, but there was political and legal cover. Well, where is it now.

            A lot of this has resonance in Kashmir. Army operates under AFSPA. This is like SOFA to protect US soldiers from legal prosecution. Kashmir is like another country. Modi has to reach out to those people.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 14,, 05:16.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by commander View Post
              Did I say that CIA can run around torturing all the people it can lay it's eye's on? I only talked about the terrorists, don't twist my words. Again IF they are terrorists they deserve the kind of treatment they received. Period. Not the innocent one's.
              IF they're terrorists eh? So how do you identify who is a terrorist and who isn't?

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Cactus
                Except Kashmir is not actually another country; it is a state in the Indian Union, where certain elements have tried to secede from the Union. The correct equivalence here is when the southern states tried to secede in 1861. President Lincoln then suspended the writ of habeus corpus (Habeas corpus in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and it was again suspended during the Reconstruction period (1865-1877) in the insurgency-hit areas of the South (Enforcement Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Mr Lincoln, like Mr Modi, also came up from an impoverished background and was a remarkable orator. But Lincoln was also a self-taught lawyer and a veteran of the Black Hawk War, and he generally took care not to let the rhetoric and the optic overpower logic and common-sense in his oratory; there are many things Mr Modi can appreciate and learn from Lincoln's life and career.

                Article 370 is like the Compromise of 1850 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_of_1850); it only defers the inevitable question -- does a common non-Kashmiri Indian have a fair and legally equal chance of making a living in Kashmir? The Indo-Pak Wars of 1948, 1965 and 1999 have shown that a common Indian is expected to fight and bleed for Kashmir, just as a free white Northerner was expected to fight and bleed in the Mexican-American War (1846-48) over the Mid-West and the Western territories.
                yes ok but the people on the street have to deal with the army on a regular basis. Their perceptions of the army and by extension the Indian state is at stake here.

                Originally posted by Cactus
                The lack of a common non-Kashmiri Indian's right to own property in J&K and the anti-women aspects of the Kashmiri laws put them in the same relative handicap as the possibility of slavery (without the Wilmot Provisio Wilmot Proviso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) in the Mid-West put the poorer white farmers moving westwards.
                The states of Uttarakkhand, Himachal and the NE also don't allow non-locals to own property to avoid changes in ethnic composition.

                Originally posted by Cactus
                You can only hope that Mr Modi and his advisers can see their situation in a proper historic context and craft their policies accordingly.
                They are trying to make a difference, new broom sweeps better and all.

                If his intervention creates as much of a stir within the electorate as it did with the rank & file then it has paid off. We will know in a couple of weeks time.

                More importantly what about the future, was this an ad-hoc tactical call (as i suspect) or does it set a precedent, remains to be answered. Nine soldiers were (recommended to be) court martialed within a month as a result of those kids. The rank & file (going on hearsay) thinks this is a new precedent. What will Modi do in the future.

                What do the people think. Yes, there is AFSPA but there are also army tribunals that act. This is not new, and if so what makes it different.
                Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 14,, 15:55.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  The states of Uttarakkhand, Himachal and the NE also don't allow non-locals to own property to avoid changes in ethnic composition.
                  A slight correction. In Assam you can own land if you're from outside the State, leaving a few areas mainly composed of tribals, like the district I belong too. Honestly, it smacks of discrimination.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Who the hell are these terrorists? Does this include the mother/sister/wife of the suicide bomber? Even when their facebook pages support Al Queida?
                    I think everyone misunderstood me. I said the terrorists that planted bombs and killed people or beheaded people heck kill anyone in anyway possible deserved that treatment let it be a woman or man, doesn't matter. If they helped in anyway possible to aid those terrorists physically or mentally still they are terrorists.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by cataphract View Post
                      IF they're terrorists eh? So how do you identify who is a terrorist and who isn't?
                      Unfortunately I don't have much knowledge in discussing and classifying who is and who isn't a terrorist in detail. But if you ask me I will say every one of those brainwashed foot soldiers of these jihadist elements or the masterminds that operate them or those that aid these scums in any possible manner is a terrorist. This is only my opinion though. Again I am not defending the CIA , what they did was wrong in so many levels.

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                      • #86
                        Even if it just moral support or encouragement but no actual operational knowledge?

                        Do you want to torture the mother who is proud of her suicide bomber son but who does not know the details of that bombing?
                        Chimo

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          The states of Uttarakkhand, Himachal and the NE also don't allow non-locals to own property to avoid changes in ethnic composition.
                          People in NE or the other states aren't waving Pakistani flags or shouting "Pakistan Jindhabad".
                          Last edited by commander; 13 Dec 14,, 15:23.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            Even if it just moral support or encouragement but no actual operational knowledge?

                            Do you want to torture the mother who is proud of her suicide bomber son but who does not know the details of that bombing?
                            Moral support and encouragement for what ? to kill innocent children,men or rape women and kill them ? Recently in West Bengal state in India an entire village tried to protect a bunch of terrorists that were making bombs and were killing Indians. What do you say in that case. Are they responsible for providing safe hideouts or not ?

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by commander View Post
                              I think everyone misunderstood me. I said the terrorists that planted bombs and killed people or beheaded people heck kill anyone in anyway possible deserved that treatment let it be a woman or man, doesn't matter. If they helped in anyway possible to aid those terrorists physically or mentally still they are terrorists.
                              Inception like?
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                Inception like?
                                Like, saying you will get 72 virgin girls to f*ck in heaven if you fight in the name of the religion and kill innocent people ;) .. Isn't that encouraging.. wow 72 eh... they sure have to keep em virgin girls coming at the rate ISIS is expanding. (jk)

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