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21 killed as terrorists stage serial attacks to disrupt Kashmir polls

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  • Firestorm
    replied
    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    The officer who was died, was not the CO but the second-in-command of 24 Punjab, who led the QRT to flush out the terrorists.
    A brave officer who volunteered to serve with his battalion in field environment, even though he was medically not required to due to an earlier battle injury in 2003.



    I have not posted regarding the Badgam check post incident as some of my compatriots would think that I'm on an anti-Modi rant.
    The army circles are furious as the Govt ordered the Army to take the blame and for the deaths to two teens last month. These teens broke through 2 barricades in their car and refused to stop at a check-post that made the RR troops open fire - this is standard SOP.

    In Uri, the sentries at the gate of 31 Medium Regt did not open fire at the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them by the govt.
    This is what happens when stupid politicians give stupid orders. Why I blame the PM? ...it is because he is running a one man show.
    That last part is from the Ajai Shukla article posted later right? The problem is that there seems to be no evidence of the terrorists coming in a vehicle. They seemed to have trekked there and atacked on foot. Ajai Shukla mentions an anonymous Whatsapp message as his source

    In the bitter WhatsApp message, an unidentified officer has directly held his top commanders responsible for the Uri debacle.

    “As per reports, soldiers on the sentry duty on the army camp [at Uri], did not fire upon the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them after the Anantnag incident (sic)”, says the WhatsApp message.

    The message goes on: “When [the] Anantnag incident took place last month, corps commander of 15 corps and Army Commander of Northern Command had both called it a mistake… Should not the Army Cdr (commander) and Corps cdr (commander) consider resigning for this goof up (sic).”

    "Now, what do they have to say? They had betrayed their own soldiers, who became cautious and the result is for everyone to see.”
    We don't even know if this is from an actual armyman or just someone (rightfully) pissed off at what hapened and desperate to understand why it happened.

    Ajai Shukla also writes this:

    Says Lieutenant General Syed Ata Hasnain, a highly regarded former corps commander in Srinagar: “It is unfair to blame top commanders for demanding restraint. Every officers knows exactly what restraint implies; and it does not restrict legitimate use of force against militants.”

    Neither do accounts of the Uri strike support the view that soldiers’ were operationally restrained. The attack began at 3 a.m., a time when civilian movement is totally banned and every stranger is considered suspicious.
    So lets be sure of what exactly happened before we start apportioning blame. No reason to trust Ajai Shukla completely when even he isn't sure about his own sources.


    Secondly, if we want to criticize the new government, we can criticize them on the fact that their reaction to such incidents isn't much different from the last govt., aside from maybe heavier cross-border firing. We can never stop 100% of such attacks adn we can never seal every inch of the border. As long as we keep fighting this war on our soil, the enemy will always enjoy the element of surprise and our casualties will continue to mount. We have to find some way of taking the fight into pakistani territory and causing massive casualties there. The current govt. does not have any answers in this regard any more than the previous one.
    Last edited by Firestorm; 08 Dec 14,, 22:59.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by ambidex View Post
    It is only congress-I apologist who are compulsive detractor of this government, are everyday giving a new spin to every decision made by them.

    The same Ajai Shukla just few days back was calling New Defence minister as minister of procurement who only signs the contracts. He forgot that a year or two back he was crying like a child against JV with Israal for FMBT and up gradation of present tanks, as they will be learning from us on our money. When the truth was, Israel's MIC is far more advance than India's. He is the same person who tried to distract decision making on Rafale by pitching F-35 when it was never offered to us, till today
    Opposition's job is to oppose, every now & then they have a point. Got a heavy dose of it in the last govt. The same people that oppose propose when they are in power.

    But the govt lies, the opposition lies and only you if you are aware and alert can spot the BS. I don't pay much attention to what either says because its just politics rather than policy. The media isn't too interested in pointing out what matters, only a few do. Most of the time they are busy playing opposition's mouth peice.

    Democracy is messy but its the best we have.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Dec 14,, 16:14.

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  • ambidex
    replied
    Please answer my previous question why you do not have trust in Army court inquiry ?

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    You don't have to believe me, but you may trust Ajau Shukla's word
    Broadsword: Young army officers blame commanders for Uri debacle on social media
    ''Whats app message ruining around in army circles of some unknown solider''. It can not go more superfluous than this. May be the message is spread by friends and relatives of those court-martial soldiers. People can react this way when their rozi roti (bread and butter) is snatched from them.

    Why is it wrong to question Modi for his actions?
    What action, asking army to set an inquiry and do prompt justice ?

    We abused Manmohan Singh when he did not take decisions.
    Now you are abusing Modi because he is taking decisions? The decisions, which by legal jurisprudence of any country ensures right to justice and right to live? BTW please point us to your posts where you have been critical of UPA-2 or UPA-1.

    He is the only PM who has visited Kashmir for 5 or 4 time since his becoming PM. It is evident that he knows what he is doing and what kind of script he is following.

    He is interacting with Kashmiris from the position of strength, at the same time Kashmiris may be perceiving him as butcher of Gujarat too. If he is pleasing them by going extra mile, at the same time they know he can be mean and punishing too. He has got the mandate of people the same mandate you favorite Congress-I used to make good or bad political decision.


    We shall do the same if Modi makes mistakes. He cannot afford a learning curve as far as Kashmir is concerned.
    You can not be wrong on many accounts in a single thread. Army is subservient to politics of this country. Army endured every wrong political decision on its chest with grace. No word was uttered.

    Furthermore BJP has far more better think tank and a team giving it inputs since pre-nuclear test times, than trolls like Ajai Shukla. Ajai Shukla can not organize a fuck but BJP has ran biggest ever election campaign successfully.

    It is only congress-I apologist who are compulsive detractor of this government, are everyday giving a new spin to every decision made by them.

    The same Ajai Shukla just few days back was calling New Defence minister as minister of procurement who only signs the contracts. He forgot that a year or two back he was crying like a child against JV with Israal for FMBT and up gradation of present tanks, as they will be learning from us on our money. When the truth was, Israel's MIC is far more advance than India's. He is the same person who tried to distract decision making on Rafale by pitching F-35 when it was never offered to us, till today.

    You talk about learning curve but since day one of this government I have been observing the same suspects issuing certificates to Modi government. If there is a learning curve then there should be a grace period given to the government before one can issue the certificate on mistake.

    You POV on zero error syndrome may be right or may be an exaggeration (given the kind of operation was mounted against those Pakistani infiltrators and they all were taken care of) but is a mere Soilder's POV, there are larger resources at stakes which needs to be looked after as well.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by ambidex View Post
    The rats came fully prepared. Seems to me they belonged to same suicide unit of Pakistan army, I posted a link here at WAB many months back.
    Its not the PA, these are hand picked LeT.

    Originally posted by anil View Post
    It was election season
    Yes and the stakes are irresistible.

    Can BJP they pull off Mission44+ and turn PDP into a junior partner like SS in Maha.

    Kashmir is desperate for development.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    Casualties are inevitable in any operations, what I am implying is that the zero error syndrome will kill moral.
    zero error is a mantra in manufacturing.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    Just because 2 teens got killed in an unfortunate incident, does not mean that the army needs to apologise. There have been similar incidents when people refused to stop at check-posts were fired upon while fleeing, but the army/ para-military were never told to apologise. That is why you have the AFSPA there.

    Political leaders must never interfere in military operations. It can sometimes send the wrong message down the rank and file - Thanks to PM Modi, Army Apologised for Killings: Sajjad Lone to NDTV
    Elections, ensuring turnout.

    Giving the impression army is responsible.

    They've turned a seperatist into joining their ranks !!
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Dec 14,, 09:52.

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  • lemontree
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Could you avoid not taking casualties ?
    Casualties are inevitable in any operations, what I am implying is that the zero error syndrome will kill moral.
    Just because 2 teens got killed in an unfortunate incident, does not mean that the army needs to apologise. There have been similar incidents when people refused to stop at check-posts were fired upon while fleeing, but the army/ para-military were never told to apologise. That is why you have the AFSPA there.

    Political leaders must never interfere in military operations. It can sometimes send the wrong message down the rank and file - Thanks to PM Modi, Army Apologised for Killings: Sajjad Lone to NDTV

    Leave a comment:


  • lemontree
    replied
    Originally posted by ambidex View Post
    In one sentence you have just raised doubt on wisdom of Army courts and GoI.

    If there was pressure from Modi government then this same kind of attack should have been not countered. The Army followed the SOP this time again.

    Your army circles may have been giving you general/generic views. If there is nothing official from Army ranks it doesn't exists. Either you provide the source of your information or its isn't the case.
    You don't have to believe me, but you may trust Ajau Shukla's word
    Broadsword: Young army officers blame commanders for Uri debacle on social media

    Thanks for turning this thread political BTW
    Why is it wrong to question Modi for his actions? We abused Manmohan Singh when de did not take decisions.
    We shall do the same if Modi makes mistakes. He cannot afford a learning curve as far as Kashmir is concerned.
    Last edited by lemontree; 08 Dec 14,, 07:24.

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  • kuku
    replied
    I think that is the attitude in most organizations in this world, social media has just made it easier to be circulated.

    Pakistan will keep supporting radical Muslim terrorist hurt India is nothing new. I do not think we can do anything about it except fixing security at home.
    Pakistan mainstreaming terrorism, says Ministry of External Affairs
    Really!!!
    Last edited by kuku; 07 Dec 14,, 16:54.

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  • anil
    replied
    Broadsword: Young army officers blame commanders for Uri debacle on social media

    Highlighting a worrying faultline, the message demands (capitals in original): “GENERALS SHOULD STOP PLAYING TO [THE] GALLERY AND MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND ALLOW SOLDIERS TO DO THEIR JOB.”
    It was election season

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  • ambidex
    replied
    Terrorists hiked for 24 hours, crossed dense forests before staging assault | The Indian Express

    The six Lashkar-e-Taiba jihadists who staged Friday’s attack on an Indian military position near Uri left the small town of Chham, across the Line of Control (LoC) in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, hiking west for almost 24 hours, across dense high-altitude forest, before staging their attack at dawn, military sources have told The Sunday Express. The route, sources said, was revealed by digital records from the global positioning sets carried by the terrorists.
    The rats came fully prepared. Seems to me they belonged to same suicide unit of Pakistan army, I posted a link here at WAB many months back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    I have not posted regarding the Badgam check post incident as some of my compatriots would think that I'm on an anti-Modi rant.
    The army circles are furious as the Govt ordered the Army to take the blame and for the deaths to two teens last month. These teens broke through 2 barricades in their car and refused to stop at a check-post that made the RR troops open fire - this is standard SOP.
    I did not catch that bit in the newspaper, in the end they were unarmed. What were those kids thinking. An unfortunate mistake.

    reminds of that fishing boat that got cut down heading towards a us tanker off the emirates coast.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    In Uri, the sentries at the gate of 31 Medium Regt did not open fire at the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them by the govt.

    This is what happens when stupid politicians give stupid orders.
    But did the terrorists give a reason to open fire. They would try not to raise attention.

    See the ammo



    Could you avoid not taking casualties ?

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    Why I blame the PM? ...it is because he is running a one man show.
    Yes, most un-RSS like which favours the collective and not the individual.

    He short circuits institutions and works around people. But it creates a bottleneck so i see this as only sustainable in the initial stages.

    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    RIP.

    High voter turnout could have led to J&K attacks

    Pak runs special trains for Hafiz Saeed meet

    Pakistan mainstreaming terrorism, says MEA

    The fat pork is at it again.

    What is the use of buying expensive toys if they have to be kept in storage. A strong response would be IN blocking shipping routes of Pak, IA fortifying the border and getting ready for any eventuality, and the IAF carpet bombing the 40+ terrorist camps in PoK, and repeat it everytime there is an attack on Indian soil.
    Successful elections with high voter turnout is a good enough response i would think. It means these attacks did not and cannot affect facts on the ground.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Dec 14,, 00:23.

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  • anil
    replied
    Unlike jihadis elsewhere, these pack arrive with gps devices and night vision goggles which spells bad news.

    They should be intercepted while they jump border fence itself

    Leave a comment:


  • ambidex
    replied
    Originally posted by lemontree View Post

    I have not posted regarding the Badgam check post incident as some of my compatriots would think that I'm on an anti-Modi rant.
    The army circles are furious as the Govt ordered the Army to take the blame and for the deaths to two teens last month. These teens broke through 2 barricades in their car and refused to stop at a check-post that made the RR troops open fire - this is standard SOP.

    In Uri, the sentries at the gate of 31 Medium Regt did not open fire at the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them by the govt.
    This is what happens when stupid politicians give stupid orders. Why I blame the PM? ...it is because he is running a one man show.
    In one sentence you have just raised doubt on wisdom of Army courts and GoI.

    If there was pressure from Modi government then this same kind of attack should have been not countered. The Army followed the SOP this time again.

    Your army circles may have been giving you general/generic views. If there is nothing official from Army ranks it doesn't exists. Either you provide the source of your information or its isn't the case.

    As per media report there was specific tip/intelligence available for this kind of attack on Badgam check post yesterday. The court of inquiry of previous such incident when breech of check post happened was conducted by the Army not GOI, they must have taken availability of intelligence input in that case as well.

    Thanks for turning this thread political BTW.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    I have not posted regarding the Badgam check post incident as some of my compatriots would think that I'm on an anti-Modi rant. The army circles are furious as the Govt ordered the Army to take the blame and for the deaths to two teens last month. These teens broke through 2 barricades in their car and refused to stop at a check-post that made the RR troops open fire - this is standard SOP.

    In Uri, the sentries at the gate of 31 Medium Regt did not open fire at the approaching terrorist vehicle due to caution imposed on them by the govt.
    This is what happens when stupid politicians give stupid orders. Why I blame the PM? ...it is because he is running a one man show.
    You're on point here. If I blame anyone it's the Modi led BJP at the center. But, things like this happened during the Congress led government too. The thing is all politicians and parties when in opposition make shallow sounds and promises, but while in government their pusillanimous nature is revealed. They are all of the same breed and stature.

    J&K terror attack: Food packets with Pak markings recovered from militants



    Twitter
    Attached Files

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  • lemontree
    replied
    This terrorist was killed in the Soura locality of Srinagar in a different operation.

    Spoiler!

    Spoilers added as graphic content: Parihaka
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Parihaka; 08 Dec 14,, 10:42.

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  • lemontree
    replied
    Spoiler!


    Spoiler!


    Spoiler!

    Spoilers added as graphic content: Parihaka
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Parihaka; 08 Dec 14,, 10:43. Reason: My apologies, spoilers added as contains graphic content

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