Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

India just woke up in North Korea or what?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by antimony View Post
    I am sorry, but how is my stance indicative of a belief in a non secular Indian state? I am telling the govt. to get out of religion. How is that non secular?
    You got me wrong there , I meant this reiterates my previous statement that we are only secular in paper and not in theory , was not directed towards you.

    Why do we need to have the religious authorities kept in check? If you don't like them, don't go to their temples. Government should get out of this business, period. Stop hoarding the rightful revenues of temples, stop funding hajj or amarnath pilgrims, stop funding any religious activity.
    Unfortunately there should be someone to check on everyone. If they are not , then there have been cases where the treasures and wealth of the temples were used by those in power for themselves and not for the people or the temple itself. They can have an autonomy body that overviews and can intervene whenever needed or something of that sort.

    Because it is typical government overreach. The politicians think they have a right to poke their dirty noses everywhere, even where said noses do not belong. People faiths or lack of them are their private affairs. this need to over-regulate everything is sickening, from censorship to anti conversion to criminalising homosexual activity. Modi wants to leave businesses on their own, to which I agree. He should also do something so that government gets out of people's daily lives.
    You can't leave everything and everyone completely on their own too. There should be checks in place which should play a balanced role.

    Because gullible people will follow anything that allows them free salvation? Because by maintainng their caste status they can still get access to Reservation quotas? Who cares? How is it relevant to my question - can I choose my caste when I convert back to Hinduism? If yes, then let me know. I kinda don't like my caste (not even sure what it is) but if I can get the caste of my choice I will "convert" to something else and "reconvert" ;)
    Haha good question. I wonder how can that be done and a quick search gave me this I don't know how much of this is valid just pointing it out

    R : In which caste, such purified people should be taken?
    V : Those, who were converted by force, will get their earlier caste when they come back to Hindu Dharma. Those, who are adopting Hindu Dharma for the first time, will have to be given a new caste which can be under ‘Vaishnav’ Sect. Marriages can take place amongst themselves (so as to avoid ‘Varna-sankar (cross-breeds)’) They can adopt Hindu names because there is Hindu identity and ‘chaitanya’ attached to it.
    Views expressed by Swami Vivekananda about purification !

    Again, that is a security issue, not a social issue. Nothing to do with religion.
    I agree religion is not the issue here but since religion is used as mask to cover these activities nobody wants to questions because then that will lead to further tensions and there are always people ready to take advantage of that situation on both sides. That is my point. We should be condoning no matter which religion does these.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by commander View Post
      I believe those who say there is God and even those who say there is no God but never those who say I am God. I never have respect for any of these Baba's or Amma's that are present all over the country. They might actually do good work or are real but doesn't work for me.

      I have never heard of him converting people ? Can you help me with some resources maybe . Would be an interesting read :)
      No he has not done any conversions. Was that your point ?

      I thought in the sense community work, hospitals that sort of thing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by commander View Post
        You got me wrong there , I meant this reiterates my previous statement that we are only secular in paper and not in theory , was not directed towards you.
        Ok, I understand

        Originally posted by commander View Post
        Unfortunately there should be someone to check on everyone. If they are not , then there have been cases where the treasures and wealth of the temples were used by those in power for themselves and not for the people or the temple itself. They can have an autonomy body that overviews and can intervene whenever needed or something of that sort.
        That can be covered under criminal laws anyway. I am also okay with autonomous bodies. But why does the government need to get involved.

        Originally posted by commander View Post
        You can't leave everything and everyone completely on their own too. There should be checks in place which should play a balanced role.
        Here is what frustrates me about my fellow countrymen. Why do we always assume that government will always have the right answers or the right protection. We see the work of government all around us. Is anyone terribly impressed by any of it?

        Then why do we believe that we citizens have to cede power to the government, to enable someone to regulate us, else there would be anarchy?

        By the way, I was watching Episode 3 of the TV series Samvidhaan, that deals with the granting of Fundamental Rights. Very interesting.
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • Seems the Facebook perps have been identified and cells have alread been dispatched to affect their arrest. One of them is from the north apparently. I am just glad that they have not been killed as per the rumors doing the rounds. Now I wait for our courts to set a strong example and draw a clear line in the sand. The laws are there. Now a judgment is awaited.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by commander View Post
            But Capt. except for a few bigger temples the rest of it is controlled by the government. Even those bigger temples not just sit on hordes of money doing nothing. Many feed people many times in a day millions of people. They have trusts too which operate Hospitals , Schools , colleges without asking them to convert to their faith.
            You need to see how the Bohri Muslims help the community with their funds. It is amazing.
            The church too needs to review how the charity money is spent. There a lot of loop holes here too.
            The temples have a disadvantage as each is managed by a different entity and not under singular umberella. I will not debate this further as it is a different subject altogether.

            As I raised a point earlier, if a Hindu org does indulge in such practices then there will be a outcry. THAT is what I am talking about , in the name of being secular we are not doing anything when it comes to other groups than Hindus.
            Iskon is doing the same thing as the evangilical faiths. But that is because Iskon is under an organised structure.

            Cheers!...on the rocks!!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
              Exactly. Hindu temple charities run institutions and help the poor across the country. Help them eat. Clothe them. Schools. Orphanages. Polytechnics and trade schools. Widow marriages and homes. Hostels. Dharmshalas (Traveler's lodges). Hospitals. Ambulance services. Old age homes. Last rites.

              And not ONE of the above is ONLY for Hindus.
              It is the same in church run institutions - they are open for all. Mother Teresa's ashrams did not convert the destitute and the dying, she just gave them diginty in death.
              We all have good and bad institutions but those are exceptions.

              I just find it highly offensive and abhorrent that I am being seriously told to "use" that money to keep people in a faith and not let them "stray" to greener pastures.

              We donate in temples as an offering to God. From our heart. Even the poorest Hindu will give something. We don't do it so that we can buy souls. Or keep the "flock" from straying.

              Faith is not a commercial arrangement! Its is NOT about numbers!!
              But mate, religion is the biggest money churner in the world.
              Use the temple funds to fund the education of the lower caste villages, give them hope and they will not stray to evangilical faiths.
              Money is the biggest power that religions have over the poor and destitute.

              That is why the Gurudwara's have the free langar (meals), to allow the poor to concentrate on work, while God provides food. That is why we dont see a khalsa begging.

              Cheers!...on the rocks!!

              Comment


              • LT most traditional Hindus (conservative, hardcore if you will) do not consider Iskon to be Hindu at all. Am sure you know that.

                You cannot become a Hindu. You are either born a Hindu or are not. What you see in the East (Kandhamal etc.) are reversions. Of recent converts. Not second generation and beyond.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                  LT most traditional Hindus (conservative, hardcore if you will) do not consider Iskon to be Hindu at all. Am sure you know that.
                  But they worship Lord Krishna? I did not know about this issue.

                  Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                    That is why we dont see a khalsa begging.
                    True. I cannot understand why any Indian should go to bed hungry. Its a basic thing we should cure first before any of these super fast train quadrilateral things (also good).

                    When we were realy hungry, we often ate at the local Gurudwara here. I with many of my classmates have even lived in one for a few days.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                      But they worship Lord Krishna? I did not know about this issue.
                      Yes. But it is max tolerated (without a great deal of enthusiasm I might add) as some sort of new age firang hippie thing. Not organic, dharmic. Regardless of what the Iskonites claim. Hindusim (like all ancient faiths) is heavily into purity of bloodlines. Iskon is equivalent of getting the blood of a mleccha (impure blood) into the fold via conversion. It is not something any Hindu center, regardless of north south east or west, is greatly excited about.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        No he has not done any conversions. Was that your point ?

                        I thought in the sense community work, hospitals that sort of thing.
                        Yes, i was never talking about the welfare services done by these big religious org's but the conversion that is done by them which I believe Sai's trust never did.

                        Comment


                        • Regardless of what happens anywhere else in the world, or what is the "done" thing as per the rules of these faiths, the fact remains that in India it has caused and is increasingly causing great friction and resentment. There needs to be a serious rethink amongst members of these communities their leaders their clergy about how to go about the spread of the message of their respective faiths in a manner that does not hurt the sensibilities of other Indians and causes friction within society.

                          Personally I believe the days of the great Prophets and active spreading of the message to the "ignorant" masses are long gone. In a world of a global village, everyone pretty much knows about the basics of each of the major faiths. Christianity and Islam included. And the Internet is always there. Books are always there. Everyone knows what the places of worship look like, and where they are. For those who are curious and really want to learn or just preliminarily test the waters in a manner of speaking, without actually jumping fully in.

                          Is there really any pressing need to actively go around gathering people and using different methods to induce them to your faith? If they come on their own, cool. No one minds that.

                          Please remember that this is a land which has given the world some of its oldest faiths. And not one but two major world religions. This is not a land of the faithless and ignorant whose people are waiting for God's word and the one and only Truth to be revealed to them. As in the days of the Prophets and the lands and the peoples they preached to.

                          So its not enough to say, oh these are evangelical faiths, this what they do, this is what they have always done.

                          India is an ancient land of ancient people and ancient tolerant faiths. Everyone can coexist in this land. Peacefully. Believeing what they want to, worshipping who they want to.

                          The problem arises when you start going out and try to convince others that they need to change that and believe in something else. In whatever way you adopt. It is simply not going to be appreciated. Is not being appreciated.
                          Last edited by sated buddha; 10 Jun 14,, 10:36.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                            Yes. But it is max tolerated (without a great deal of enthusiasm I might add) as some sort of new age firang hippie thing. Not organic, dharmic. Regardless of what the Iskonites claim. Hindusim (like all ancient faiths) is heavily into purity of bloodlines. Iskon is equivalent of getting the blood of a mleccha (impure blood) into the fold via conversion. It is not something any Hindu center, regardless of north south east or west, is greatly excited about.
                            Wow...I never knew that.

                            Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                              Wow...I never knew that.
                              Good version of their own langar though. I'll give them that. :)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by sated buddha View Post
                                Regardless of what happens anywhere else in the world, or what is the "done" thing as per the rules of these faiths, the fact remains that in India it has caused and is increasingly causing great friction and resentment. There needs to be a serious rethink amongst members of these communities their leaders their clergy about how to go about the spread of the message of their respective faiths in a manner that does not hurt the sensibilities of other Indians and causes friction within society.
                                Most of it the work is being done in the way you find it acceptable. No one is forced and the law is followed, by forwarding an affidavit to the district collector.

                                However, the problem is not in following the law. It is in being a soft target of right wing groups even when you are within law.

                                Personally I believe the days of the great Prophets and active spreading of the message to the "ignorant" masses are long gone.
                                Actually, they exist today as the various baba's/ sufi's. Our people look up to these "holy" men...
                                These are the men who preach to the 600 districts of India. We only know what happens in the 30 odd urban cities of India.

                                India is an ancient land of ancient people and ancient tolerant faiths. Everyone can coexist in this land. Peacefully. Believeing what they want to, worshipping who they want to.
                                Would you believe it, if I told you that Ashoka had 18,000 jains massacred? This is just a little trivia I came across when i was doing some research on communal violence and its history in India (preparing a crisis action senario for our crisis management team).

                                The two biggest prosecutors of christians in medevial India were - St. Francis Xavier (by his inquision) and Tipu Sultan (killed almost 70,000 of the 85,000 mangalorean christians).

                                The problem arises when you start going out and try to convince others that they need to change that and believe in something else. In whatever way you adopt. It is simply not going to be appreciated. Is not being appreciated.
                                Point taken and accepted.

                                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X