India just woke up in North Korea or what?

[antimony]

Freedom to offend more like it.

In such case, it comes partnered with the freedom to get offended.

In a Republic, the right of even one citizen to get offended. And take action acordingly. Rule of Law.

In a Democracy, its the majority which elects their leaders and law makers. Who write the Law. And enforce it.

Its all very connected and simple really.

The rest of your post ..... LOL

Your understanding of democracy and republic are tragic, the conclusions you draw are disastrous. By your logic, any dissent against any government, any criticism against anyone is quickly turned into offense and subjugated.

There is no right not to be offended. If you do not want to be offended, stop listening to the offensive discourse.

[antimony]

OOE, you are so far off the mark and you don't even know what you are talking about. Your ignorance shines big time. For all the talk of LT cribbing about minority rights and all, he ignores what have happened to hindus' rights. In short, you are falling for a fallacious narrative without facts backing you up.

What the hell do you think you are and most importantly, what the hell do you know about the hindus' plight in India? For all LTtalk about minorities and being attacked, he conveniently ignores what happens to Hindus in the areas long dominate by Muslims or other minorities.

For starters, Hindus is not one big whole bloc but made of many subgroups and such.

What are these Hindu rights? HUF tax laws? Inheritance laws? temple right?

the rest, Hindu plight in Muslim areas, are criminal activities, which goes on to show the lack of a rule of law

[sated buddha]

Your understanding of democracy and republic are tragic, the conclusions you draw are disastrous. By your logic, any dissent against any government, any criticism against anyone is quickly turned into offense and subjugated.

I'm actually giving you a taste of your own medicine. Seems its as unpalatable to you as it is to me .....

Coming back.

If it gives offense and could snowball into a situation, it will be. We have more important things to take care of here than play nursemaid to big mouths. Stupid ones at that who Darwin should have culled by now.

There is no right not to be offended. If you do not want to be offended, stop listening to the offensive discourse.

You cannot put something in the public domain and order others to stay away. Say what you want in your home. When you speak in public, others will hear and react.

You don't like the reaction. Others don't like what caused the reaction.

A situation develops.

So either be judicious in what you say. And exert self control. Or have others exert it for you. Hopefully the state.

[sated buddha]

For starters, Hindus is not one big whole bloc but made of many subgroups and such.

An important point which most non-Indians do not understand.

Many Indians as well.

"Hindus" in the way it is used today, is as if its one homogeneous religion, Abrahamnic religion style, insofar as they worship a single God.

It is not.

Hindus as a group insofar as you can actually group them are as diverse (in fact much more so) as the larger whole of "Non-Hindu" India, and the only commonality between them within this smaller group, is the same cultural historical commonality between all Indians as part of the larger group.

And by now you all know what that commonality is called.

We are all cutural Hindus.

There is no majority and no minority on the basis of faith at all. Just on the basis of numbers from the larger pool, the whole. For consensus. And the larger good.

[Doktor]

Stupid ones at that who Darwin should have culled by now.

Wonder which historic figures will agree with this statement of yours.

You cannot put something in the public domain and order others to stay away. Say what you want in your home. When you speak in public, others will hear and react.

You don't like the reaction. Others don't like what caused the reaction.

They can talk, too, what stops them. They can't take lives because they got offended.

So either be judicious in what you say. And exert self control. Or have others exert it for you. Hopefully the state.

Tell me you are not serious. Wait, you are.

[Oracle]

LT, do you have have any details on what exactly was posted in each case. I know in the second case it was pretty offensive, pornographic even?

For example, I know the IT reins have been tightening in our country for some time. My posting and blogging style, both here and elsewhere in the etherspace, is well known by my younger sister, who is a IT geek of some repute and a big shot in the industry till recently when she took a voluntary sabbatical for her kids.

She was over with her family for the weekend and we got into some socio-political discussion and she was VERY worried about what I was posting, and how, and where.

I guess you would say that now with "my" side in power, I need not worry for 5 years at least. But the broader issue is that even from the Congress and Kapil Sibal's time, the powers do seem to be getting antsy about us mouthing off.

It is something that will come to a head sooner rather than later. And we, both you and me, will find ourselves in this fight on the same side.

I overlooked this post. My bad SB. I love technical discussions. Some questions.

#1. IT geek of some repute - if that is the case, considering she isn't a CEO, maybe she knows me and vice-versa. What technology & domain is she working on? Ask and tell, if that's an issue. And if she's a CEO, I don't think you'd mind letting us know, since you own big guns in the North East, have a senior Police Officer in your family, know the pulse of every single Indian et. al. Afterall, you seem to be on the correct side of everything.

#2. How in heaven's sake does your younger sister know what you post here and there, and wherever we don't know? Let me lessen your burden a bit, it ain't telepathy, right? So, how? If she has fixed a bug/keylogger in your system, then I understand, but having taken a voluntary sabbatical for her kids, I wonder if she has the time for silly mischief that a Grade-V student can accomplish. If that is the case, then IT geek of no repute.

#3. If not, how did she do it? Ethical hacker? I deal with them for penetration testing of our products. I'd be really interested in learning the how's.

Wanting to learn more, your turn. :)

[Oracle]

You're not talking rights here, Hitesh. You're talking one group trumping another group be it Muslims or Hindus. What's between you and God is between you and God. No one can come between that. No one.

And I did not use LT's narrative. SB's own narrative is enough to scare me. They reeked of the Third Reich and the Fatherland.

Sir, it's not so bad here in India. I mean, look at this very discourse, 1 or 2 against the motion. So, the majority of Indians are tolerant and this is precisely the reason why we ain't living in Somalia like conditions. The renegades here and in India number less, that is the reason they have no real play in society and come to boards such as WAB to preach extremism. They want to be heard. Poor fellas, they ain't flying in here, too.

[antimony]

An important point which most non-Indians do not understand.

Many Indians as well.

"Hindus" in the way it is used today, is as if its one homogeneous religion, Abrahamnic religion style, insofar as they worship a single God.

It is not.

Hindus as a group insofar as you can actually group them are as diverse (in fact much more so) as the larger whole of "Non-Hindu" India, and the only commonality between them within this smaller group, is the same cultural historical commonality between all Indians as part of the larger group.

And by now you all know what that commonality is called.

We are all cutural Hindus.

There is no majority and no minority on the basis of faith at all. Just on the basis of numbers from the larger pool, the whole. For consensus. And the larger good.

And you guys are trying to turn all of this into a majoritarian, authoritarian religion. A BJP supporter spelled it out to me. Everything now is in the name of Ram. We are losing the pluralistic, multifaceted Hinduism to an aggressive, one dimensional Hinduism.

[antimony]

Sir, it's not so bad here in India. I mean, look at this very discourse, 1 or 2 against the motion. So, the majority of Indians are tolerant and this is precisely the reason why we ain't living in Somalia like conditions. The renegades here and in India number less, that is the reason they have no real play in society and come to boards such as WAB to preach extremism. They want to be heard. Poor fellas, they ain't flying in here, too.

Unfortunately, people of his ilk are in power. Expect more of this. I ahve sure we will have growth and acche din (good days) and whatnot. We will also have more Ram Sena, more Muthaliks, more moral policing.

[Oracle]

Unfortunately, people of his ilk are in power. Expect more of this. I ahve sure we will have growth and acche din (good days) and whatnot. We will also have more Ram Sena, more Muthaliks, more moral policing.

You're fear is not without reason my friend. But feeding the trolls means giving them more airtime. So what should be done? I'm waiting for SB to respond to my post, and not run away when his lies have been compromised as before. Let's see.

[antimony]

I'm actually giving you a taste of your own medicine. Seems its as unpalatable to you as it is to me .....

What medicine? Most of what you say is unpalatable because it is ill informed, illogical, inconsistent, irrational, some of the above or all of the above.

BUT


I would speak out for your right to mouth off. You have every right (in my view) to spout off whatever nonsense you can think of.

If it gives offense and could snowball into a situation, it will be. We have more important things to take care of here than play nursemaid to big mouths. Stupid ones at that who Darwin should have culled by now.

You are telling me that your belief system is so insecure that you cannot withstand someone giving you offense. Let me tell you this. It does not bother me to hear someone speaking ill of my country, my flag, my ethnicity, nationality or whatever, because I am supremely confident of my stature. You calling me a Bong instead of a Bengali, or a desi instead of Indian does not make me see red. You, on the other hand, are on a short fuse.

You talk about Darwin, as in survival of the fittest, as in the rule of the jungle. If that is your hope and aspiration about India, I feel sorry for you, as I was hoping we would become more of a civilization with the rule of law.

You cannot put something in the public domain and order others to stay away. Say what you want in your home. When you speak in public, others will hear and react.

You don't like the reaction. Others don't like what caused the reaction.

Cannot or should not? With your Shiv Sena and Ram Sena goons around, I agree that I cannot, not unless I have my AR15 with me to hunt down rabid dogs.

Should not, as in legally? I sure hope we hope that we have that right. If you don't like the message, don't see it

Should not, as in morally? I would agree. No civilized person should intentionally hurt other people feelings, and instead should engage them in debate

A situation develops.

So either be judicious in what you say. And exert self control. Or have others exert it for you. Hopefully the state.

There again, the threat of use of force. Typical brute fascist mentality.

[antimony]

You're fear is not without reason my friend. But feeding the trolls means giving them more airtime. So what should be done? I'm waiting for SB to respond to my post, and not run away when his lies have been compromised as before. Let's see.

I am guessing that you will see your post on his ignore list.

[antimony]

YHave you forgotten about what the left wing did in WB when their goons pretty much attacked and killed their way against any opposition in the name of secularism while the UPA-1 stood by and did nothing?

Please explain,

CPM cadres used to attack TMC and Congress supporters. What did that have to do with religion?

[Firestorm]

LT, we have been living in North Korea for quite some time. I don't know why you woke up so late.

Kapil Sibal's law: Tweet and go to jail.

So an aam aadmi tweeted that the Union finance minister's son Karti P Chidambaram has amassed more wealth than Robert Vadra, and voila, he gets arrested! Chidu Jr tweets: 'Free speech is subject to reasonable restrictions. I have a right to seek constitutional/legal remedies over defamatory/scurrilous tweets.'

Except that, as far as is known, the businessman whose Web site describes him as 'The Young Politician', has not charged the writer of the 'defamatory' tweet with defamation. Why not?
.....

Section 66A of the Information Technology (Amendment) Act, 2008, came into force in 2010. The section makes punishable with three years in jail posting online 'any information that is grossly offensive or has menacing character.'
There's more to it. A non-bailable arrest warrant for you if you upload information that you knew was false, but you posted it only to cause 'annoyance, inconvenience, danger, obstruction, insult, injury, criminal intimidation, enmity, hatred, or ill will.'
....

In April 2011, the West Bengal police arrested Jadavpur University Professor Ambikesh Mohapatra for merely forwarding on e-mail a cartoon making fun of Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee, using a reference to a Satyajit Ray detective story. It reached Mamta Banerjee and she was offended.
...

Similarly, Congress and Dalit activists in Maharashtra targeted cartoonist Aseem Trivedi for his anti-corruption cartoons that he displayed at the MMRDA grounds in Mumbai in December 2011. Their real intent, it seems, was to show the Anna Hazare movement as being anti-national. They charged him with the cognisable offence of sedition, but also with Sibal's Law -- because the cartoons were also available online.
...

Senior television journalists like Barkha Dutt and Sagarika Ghose constantly complain about online trolling and 'hate speech'. They have thus helped build an environment in favour of Sibal's Law -- 'causing annoyance', 'menacing character', 'grossly offensive' are all good descriptors of how the powerful see online dissent. These journalists have thus favoured draconian laws while paying lip service to free speech by arguing that while corporate media is covered by legal restrictions online media seems to be a free-for-all.

They need to get rid of Section 66(A) and other such offensive parts of the IPC which infringe on our Freedom of Speech. The problem facing the police is that if someone does make a complaint, they are obligated to act.

I'll be disappointed if the Modi government doesn't get around to amending these parts of the Constitution during their tenure.

[antimony]

LT, we have been living in North Korea for quite some time. I don't know why you woke up so late.

Kapil Sibal's law: Tweet and go to jail.

They need to get rid of Section 66(A) and other such offensive parts of the IPC which infringe on our Freedom of Speech. The problem facing the police is that if someone does make a complaint, they are obligated to act.

I completely agree. That is why I said that this has been used by any party when it suited them. Only now, it is becoming more blatant. It does not have anything to do with Modi directly, it has everything to do with his supporters who now have a feeling of entitlement. Look at SB's imperious comments on this forum on how those who do not behave will face the consequences.

I'll be disappointed if the Modi government doesn't get around to amending these parts of the Constitution during their tenure.

If your hope is that Modi Sarkar will show any leniency on these matters, I suggest you set yourself up for a long line of disappointments.