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Lt Gen Brar: It was an assassination attempt by 'pro-Khalistan elements'

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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    They don't want to be tainted and are trying to distance themselves from the actions of a radical few. You are in agreement here by stating that ten years ago the anti-india sentiment was stronger among sikhs living abroad than compared to the present day. The comments by the secessionists are telling in that they too don't want to be seen as a part of this whereas i'd have thought they'd be celebrating the fact that Brar got attacked. Maybe they're just a bit miffed the job was not successful :)
    DE, That's exactly the bias I've been trying to point out for a while now. These are nothing but preconceived notions, and whenever challenged like they have been now, are shrugged off as "maybe they're just a bit miffed the job was not successful". ;) As I said even before, a lot of Sikhs in the West are Khalistani secessionists, but that does not automatically mean that they are terrorists. It is still, at the end of the day, a political issue.


    Whereas over here we see the actions of the radical few as a grassroots movement that could only sustain itself by the approval of the larger Sikh community abroad. We are generalising the actions of the radical few towards the majority. The attack on Brar is largely responsible for that perception taking hold. Then again minister of state & IB chief already said similar a month before Brar was attacked. So there is a self-reinforcing dynamic of both Brar & the month ago leaders narratives here.
    DE, than the flaw is in your perception of the issue. See it from another angle, it would be akin to saying that the fringe Hindu far right groups involved in murdering Muslims in Gujarat or Christians in Orissa are only being sustained by the approval of the majority Hindu community. That perception is used by the Sikh far right groups such as Dal Khalsa, which you quoted below.

    There was one comment by the Dal Khalsa in that article i found very puzzling. It struck as being completely out of touch with ground realities in Punjab
    Dal Khalsa is a fringe right wing group, and their narrative is not that much different than the Indian narrative against the Sikh community abroad. The difference is that the accusations are just in the opposite direction. While one section of Indians demonizes the Sikh community abroad as a whole, the Sikh right wing demonizes the Indian community as a whole. Neither side is in touch with ground realities, or even wants to responsibly deal with the real problem.

    The govt in Punjab presently is a BJP ally. There is a very strong anti-congress sentiment in Punjab over the way they were treated in the 80s. So way i see it there is no way the BJP are ever going to anatagonise their Punjabi allies. In fact they will appease them to the extent possible and the proof of this is when we hear talk about memorials to Bhindranwale & his militants to be built but not for forces that lost their lives over the affair. So just cannot see any Hindutva anti-sikh interest here.
    Indian politics runs less on ideology and more on opportunistic ideals. Akalis and BJP are only allies against the Congress; while the Akali youth wing and the RSS were rioting against each other on the streets of Punjab not 6 months ago!

    Do you know of any instances where Hindutva was championed over Sikh interests ?
    Hindutva = Hindu nationalism. I don't see how it is possible for the BJP to champion Hindutva in a Sikh dominated state?


    Been meaning to point this out to you for a while now and you gave me the chance. Don't take it the wrong way.

    I've noticed you have a tendency to say 'than' instead of 'then'. You do this often and its no typo.

    than is comparative, smaller than, larger than etc.

    then is imperative. telling someone to do something.
    Prolonged use of the internet has done terrible things to my writing skills. Being in engineering doesn't help, as writing skills are largely looked over and not given much importance. Thanks for correcting me.
    Last edited by Tronic; 19 Oct 12,, 20:22.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      DE, That's exactly the bias I've been trying to point out for a while now. These are nothing but preconceived notions, and whenever challenged like they have been now, are shrugged off as "maybe they're just a bit miffed the job was not successful". ;) As I said even before, a lot of Sikhs in the West are Khalistani secessionists, but that does not automatically mean that they are terrorists. It is still, at the end of the day, a political issue.
      Right, the point about the secessionists (the two that were interviewed) is they are making out as if they've been framed. An odd response that is if one goes on the premise that groups like them were somehow involved. Miffed or not, planned or not, I don't sense any approval on their part over what happened to Brar. Nobody AFAIK has yet claimed credit for the attack.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      DE, than the flaw is in your perception of the issue. See it from another angle, it would be akin to saying that the fringe Hindu far right groups involved in murdering Muslims in Gujarat or Christians in Orissa are only being sustained by the approval of the majority Hindu community. That perception is used by the Sikh far right groups such as Dal Khalsa, which you quoted below.
      Like the way you turned that inside out. I've got an open mind over this as there are few odd points. We'll see what the case reveals.

      What i'm trying to figure out is what's driving the narrative i've been reading about in the press here.

      I think up to now for a lot of us, Punjab was a done deal, Punjab is peaceful & prosperous nowadays. Whatever happened was in the past. Finished. Over.

      Then we get jolted by a shot from the past. What we thought was over isn't quite so. It seems there is a new generation out there that wants to pick up where the previous generation left off and we do not as yet know the extent of their ambition.

      I've not seen any Indian articles that actually interview sikhs abroad and ask them their opinions over this incident, its just been locally generated and centred around Brar. So its very one sided that way.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Dal Khalsa is a fringe right wing group, and their narrative is not that much different than the Indian narrative against the Sikh community abroad. The difference is that the accusations are just in the opposite direction. While one section of Indians demonizes the Sikh community abroad as a whole, the Sikh right wing demonizes the Indian community as a whole. Neither side is in touch with ground realities, or even wants to responsibly deal with the real problem.
      The real problem here being getting justice for those killed in the sikh riots.

      I would have expected Dal Khalsa to have been more supportive of the attack but its clear they're not.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Indian politics runs less on ideology and more on opportunistic ideals.
      Remember that underlined bit as i'm going to use it in part to a reply to your post in another thread.

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Akalis and BJP are only allies against the Congress; while the Akali youth wing and the RSS were rioting against each other on the streets of Punjab not 6 months ago!
      Yes and i don't see that changing any time soon.

      How significant is this youth riot ?

      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Hindutva = Hindu nationalism. I don't see how it is possible for the BJP to champion Hindutva in a Sikh dominated state?
      Don't follow ?

      Championing Hindutva in the sense to make Punjab feel a part of India and discourage/counter secessionism. Anything beyond runs the risk of alienating the sikhs and is therefore counter-productive in the present alliance.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Oct 12,, 22:55.

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      • Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but the trial is going on now

        Sikh separatists tried to slash throat of retired Indian general in London revenge attack, court hears


        Four Sikh separatists tried to slash the throat of a retired Indian general in a revenge attack carried out on the streets of London, a court heard today.

        Two of the men and a female co-defendant appeared in court accused of attacking Lt Gen Kuldip Singh Brar last year. They, along with one man who has already admitted his part in the attack and another who has never been arrested, believed retired Lt Gen Brar to be responsible for atrocities committed at the Golden Temple of Amritsar during the Indian army's crackdown on Sikh separatists in 1984, the prosecution alleged.

        The prosecutor Annabel Darlow said that one of the defendants Harjit Kaur, 39, tracked the retired soldier as he holidayed in the West End with his wife Meena. She told the jury her case would prove that Ms Kaur passed on the Brars' whereabouts to the attackers on the day of the alleged assault in September last year.

        The other two men Mandeep Sandhu, 34, Dilbag Singh, 37, were accused of carrying out the attack itself. All three standing trial have been charged with wounding the 78-year-old Lt Gen Brar with intent. Barjinder Sangha, 33, has admitted the same charge, the court heard. The last alleged accomplice is not involved in the case at Southwark Crown Court.

        "Kuldip Brar was slashed right across the neck with a knife. He sustained very deep cuts to his face and neck," said prosecutor Annabel Darlow. She added: "Each took part in an enterprise to cause Kuldip Brar serious harm."

        And Ms Darlow said: "The four [men] acted in a group, deterring anyone else from becoming involved and going to General Brar's aid and sheltering the knifeman from view. Harjit Kaur too played a crucial role silently, unobtrusively following the Brars."

        Harjit Kaur wore a pink shirt as she listened to the proceedings from the dock. Her co-defendant Mandeep Sandhu wore a white shirt with dark pinstripes and Dilbag Singh a grey t-shirt. The men wore Turbans and long, dark beards. None spoke and interpreters assisted all three throughout.

        Lt Gen Brar, himself a Sikh, said that he was given one of India's highest levels of protection as a result of "unlimited" threats to his life. Giving evidence via videolink from India this afternoon, he said that one website declared him the "number one enemy of the Sikhs". Another threat he said he received read: "there have been seven attempts on his life which have not succeeded, but the eighth one will."

        He was not protected, however, on his trip to London, which he said was a private holiday. He added that he and his wife, who have been regular visitors to London for more than a decade, did not want a security detail because they preferred to enjoy a normal holiday. "We wanted to meet our friends and walk in Hyde Park," he said. Their protection has now been stepped up as a result of the attack, the General added.

        As the prosecution opened its case today, the jury saw CCTV evidence Ms Darlow said showed the four men running away from the scene of the crime. The jury also saw footage the prosecution said showed the General falling to the floor immediately after the attack.

        The jury heard that the prosecution will attempt to show that the defendants were in constant contact via mobile phone, despite rarely contacting each other before that weekend. Ms Darlow alleged that most of the group met in London at the city’s Central Gurdwara, before reconnoitring the hotel their alleged target was staying in and launching their attack.

        They were tracked down, Ms Darlow said, after one of the group's discarded mobile phone was found at the scene and handed in.

        Mandeep Sandhu, from Birmingham, Dilbag Singh, from London, and Harjit Kaur, from London, all deny the charges. The trial continues.

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