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Lt Gen Brar: It was an assassination attempt by 'pro-Khalistan elements'

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Rant? Operation Blue Star was the Indian equivalent of Tiananmen. And that's only if we downplay its significance.
    Oh bullshit!!! What a load of crock!!!

    GOI gave the terrorists every chance to surrender. The terrorists booby trapped the entire temple, descrecating the very grounds. It is not like Tiananmen where the soldiers mowed down innocent and unarmed people.

    What utter rubbish!!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
      GOI gave the terrorists every chance to surrender.
      I think that is where Kato is alluding to. Both governments gave every opportunity for the dissidents to end their protests peacefully. Both governments could not and did not allow the challenges to their authority to go unanswered.

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      • #18
        Bluestar was against armed to the teeth terrorists and Tienanmen was against unarmed protesters.


        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

        HAKUNA MATATA

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        • #19
          Not all the protesters were unarmed, Sir

          https://www.google.ca/search?q=tiana...w=1120&bih=880

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          • #20
            From the BBC article.

            He was attacked on Old Quebec Street in the Oxford Circus area of London on Sunday night by unknown assailants, with no suggestion so far that his attackers were Sikhs.
            They could have beem Romanian Gypseys.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rickshaw92 View Post
              From the BBC article.



              They could have beem Romanian Gypseys.
              Lt. Gen is the best person to identify them as Sikhs and he has said so in an interview to NDTV post attack.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                Not all the protesters were unarmed, Sir

                https://www.google.ca/search?q=tiana...w=1120&bih=880
                Sir,

                Non of the picture showing armed civilians. May be I am missing something.

                .................................................. ...................................
                On Topic.

                Just posting a video of Lt. Gen Brar's last interview before attack..

                http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/li...lated_also_see

                second video

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjkDc...feature=relmfu
                Last edited by ambidex; 03 Oct 12,, 11:49.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Not all the protesters were unarmed, Sir

                  https://www.google.ca/search?q=tiana...w=1120&bih=880
                  Sir,

                  There is absolutely no comparison in the magnitude and type/amount of arms that the militants had in Golden Temple and the Tianamen protestors.
                  Operation Blue Star was launched against hardcore militants led by a veteran InA General and they were confident to hold onto their positions, believing that the InA would blink twice before launching a full blown assault and also banked on the GoI's hesitance against buying the ire of the Sikh community pan India.

                  What happened afterwards is very very unfortunate, but it was more about bad-management of the Operation rather than the GoI/InA's deliberate attempt to slaughter its own citizen.
                  sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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                  • #24
                    The Kashmiri militants have also resorted to similar techniques, often siezing religious shrines and holding people hostage. The Army had no choice but to storm the shrines often leading to civilian casualities and damage to the shrines. However, the onus lies with the militants who have no qualms in militarizing the shrines, rather than the security forces who have to commit to the thankless job of storming the religious shrines and flushing the militants out. The writ of the state had to be enforced, even if that translates into damaged property and dead people.
                    sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                      Sir,

                      Non of the picture showing armed civilians. May be I am missing something.
                      You're seeing the pictures of dead soldiers and burnt APC. The weapon used was Molotov Cocktail.

                      Originally posted by Deltacamelately View Post
                      Sir,

                      There is absolutely no comparison in the magnitude and type/amount of arms that the militants had in Golden Temple and the Tianamen protestors.
                      Operation Blue Star was launched against hardcore militants led by a veteran InA General and they were confident to hold onto their positions, believing that the InA would blink twice before launching a full blown assault and also banked on the GoI's hesitance against buying the ire of the Sikh community pan India.

                      What happened afterwards is very very unfortunate, but it was more about bad-management of the Operation rather than the GoI/InA's deliberate attempt to slaughter its own citizen.
                      The point is Major that in both cases, the protesters have stopped being civilians and had become the enemy. Chinese soldiers are human beings. They were trained, indoctrinated to protect the people. They were called the People's Liberation Army. Turning guns on your own people is not any more natural for Chinese soldiers than it was for Indian soldiers.

                      Until the protesters stopped being the people and became the enemy. The Chinese protesters spilled first blood and killed first. The regular Chinese soldier lost all inhibition to shoot them soon after that.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                        Lt. Gen is the best person to identify them as Sikhs and he has said so in an interview to NDTV post attack.
                        He's the best person to give a description but even I would hesitate to identify them as Sikhs until further information becomes available. First rule of contact. Initial reports are always wrong ... even when they're right.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          He's the best person to give a description but even I would hesitate to identify them as Sikhs until further information becomes available. First rule of contact. Initial reports are always wrong... even when they're right.
                          Sir,

                          I bet, you can.

                          If Lt. Gen must talk PC then it is totally a different discussion.

                          I would believe his word and its not difficult to identify someone from your own ethnicity or background. Having a scuffle with few of them and they way they might have been talking/yaling can reveal their ethnicity and background with ease.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            You're seeing the pictures of dead soldiers and burnt APC. The weapon used was Molotov Cocktail.
                            I see, few were hanged and strangled by protesters too.

                            If PLA was out then they must be having a military objective. The way mob behave was typical of a riot not an armed stand off.

                            There is no equivalence between act of mad mobs out powering a soldier or a group of Soldiers or throwing fire bombs (which happens in many riots we see) and someone at ambush behind machinegun net or a bunker.

                            PS: I am not exonerating protesters of Tiananmen Square for their violence.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                              I would believe his word and its not difficult to identify someone from your own ethnicity or background. Having a scuffle with few of them and they way they might have been talking/yaling can reveal their ethnicity and background with ease.
                              There's no such mention other than physical appearance based upon the articles presented. As such, I cannot assume the initial reports of Sikhs to be correct.

                              Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                              There is no equivalence between act of mad mobs out powering a soldier or a group of Soldiers or throwing fire bombs (which happens in many riots we see) and someone at ambush behind machinegun net or a bunker.
                              First off, it was a cluster fuck of an operation. Ground communications between units were non-existing and no RRF was on standby to rescue these poor blokes.

                              The order for lethal force was issued by the commander on the scene after these incidents. And if you have followed the events. Those troops remembering what happened to their brothers did not hesitate one second when the order to fire came.
                              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 03 Oct 12,, 17:19.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                                ToI has quoted Lt. Gen Brar in above news article. The newspapers were rightly pointing out at that possibility yesterday. Even you have suggested about the same possibility.
                                As I mentioned, the headlines in the Indian media have been the same even before Gen Brar made that statement. Suggesting a possibility is one thing, making a headline out of it, totally another.


                                You can use him being a Sikh and at the same time doubt his judgement about Sikhs (to Identify) . I have seen a video on NDTV where he has clearly stated word 'Sikhs' for them.
                                How have I "used" him being a Sikh? That is total BS. And yes, I will cast doubts on his judgement because it is not unreasonable for humans under duress to make flawed judgements. It could very well be that they were Sikhs, but I'll wait for the Police to tell me that, other possibilities are still wide open as far as I'm concerned.


                                And you buy that prediction of Lt. Gen Hoon, who wasn't even there ? I do 10s of bedside tracheostomies every year with one small surgical blade trust me Lt. Brar just got lucky and the help came in time.
                                I don't "buy" anything until the Police come out with the suspects; his example was merely used to point out the possibilities and that the Indian media has been jumping the gun in establishing the verdict.

                                BTW the link is not working.
                                It is for me.


                                I found everything same about the incident reporting with BBC source (apart from their generic Blue Star operation details) and Indian media reporting. Don't know what made you pontificate at Indian media and derail the discussion.
                                Well, I didn't find the reporting to be unbiased, so I posted another link. You took issue at that link, so I'll put the "derailment", if there was any, on your shoulders. Cheers!


                                If Lt. Gen must talk PC then it is totally a different discussion.
                                If he was to walk down the streets of Southhall with a shirt saying "I'm General Brar", he'd probably be lynched alive by the Sikhs. So it has absolutely nothing to do with being "politically correct"! It has to do with the motive of the attack. Everything is still only speculation until the Police make a statement on it.
                                Last edited by Tronic; 03 Oct 12,, 17:40.
                                Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                                -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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