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Patton's Third Army in the Pacific instead of Europe

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  • Originally posted by astralis View Post

    hitler getting assassinated in 1938 or 1939 still leaves Germany in a fairly strong state.
    And if he never rises to power or gets knocked off earlier?

    moreover there's an immense risk in this timeline that without the nastiness that was Hitler, the Western Allies would have easily found common cause with a right-wing Germany against the Red menace...along with the Poles, too, for that matter.
    I don't see Stalin as that risk averse without Hitler going in to 1943. The Red Army would be mostly rebuilt with equipment vastly superior to anything France and the UK can come up with and in far greater numbers. The VVS would be weaker in terms of technology, but without a re-armed Germany the UK and France are not really going to be pushing aviation development as heavily as they otherwise did. Without Hitler, or with the Skoda works the German army is well trained but small and poorly equipped, at least in terms of countering Soviet deep battle doctrine.

    The Poles actually compete with Italy and Romania for having have the strongest army in the West capable of actually fighting since I firmly believe France won't really budge. In fact, the biggest advantage the West might have is Polish intelligence, if the Poles can discover and then convince the rest of the world about the T-34 then you might see the UK build something less terrible than the 2pdr armed Crusader.

    I can see Stalin snaffling up the Baltic states but much more than that, he would have a real war on his hands. Germany would never stand by while Poland got swallowed down, and Poland was a pretty decent second-rate power all by herself.
    His army still dwarfs all comers, even combined. Depending on how things go in Germany leading to no Hitler the UK might have a good jump on developing heavy bombers. Those and the RN are the only western advantges, but against a pure continental power like the USSR the RN is much less of a factor than it would be against almost anyone else.

    THAT would be an interesting war if Stalin decided to fight it. French and UK expeditionary troops fighting with the Germans and the Poles in a Russian offensive against Warsaw...[/QUOTE]

    If the UK was not already embroiled in a war in the Pacific...


    • Thinking this through, I don't think Russia have that much of an advantage. The only example of maneuver war before BARBAROSSA that they did was with the Japanese and that was with the Mongolian open plains. Plus, if the Germans did the Sudetenland, then, fortifications would have re-exerted itself as the primary means of warfare. The Russians would have to smash through variations of the MAGINOT LINE and though Stalin is a butcher, I can't see him bleeding 500,000 lives just to take Warsaw.


      • The United States Third Army enjoyed an impressive history of glory and victory during it's lifetime. The Third Army was at it's best and most famous when it was commanded by the great combat general, George Smith Patton, Jr.

        One of the thousands of battle hardened veterans of the Second World War who served under Patton's command said of the fighting unit, "The Third under Patton, was probably the cleanest, neatest army that ever fought a war. Patton saw to that. And I've always believed that was one of the reasons it was such a fine army. We hated the rules, but we never lost a battle."

        It was under the command of General Patton that the Third Army saw it's only period of actual combat.