What if: GPS and all Western satellites are successfully neutralised

[Blademaster]

The West's sat-net is just one part of RMA. Locally, even at the operational level it wont necessarily be a crippling loss. Advances in other areas like FLIR, Radar, digitized battle management/IFF, etc still work better than anything anyone else has. Plus our commanders have real world experience in using all these systems in an integrated way.

Finally, the main loss of capability will be remote sensing and real time communications between some theater assets and the theater commander and then back to CONUS and vice versa. No more BHO watching OBL get double tapped and seeing whats more than 400ish miles away starts to be a problem.

However, something to be considered- if the US lost its constellation of early warning sats.......

All that you talked about is contingent on one thing - availability of steady streaming power. What happens if batteries run out and the power systems are taken out? No recharging capability.

[JAD_333]

You know, there is an OPLAN or CONPLAN on the shelf in the Pentagon for every eventuality. "Fidel dies and Cuba folds like a cheap camera?" There's a plan for that. They are written by the geographic or functional commanders, reviewed by the Joint Staff and the services, and approved by SECDEF. We take them out every two years to review and update them. For example, I read the version of the OPLAN for Iraq twice in three years. As you all know, it didn't go as planned, but that's why we have branches and sequels. The point of all this is that there are bright young minds who are paid to think of all of these horrible but nonetheless interesting scenarios and then write a plan for dealing with it. We even war game them in exercises like "Top Off" and "Eligible Receiver" with a different set of circumstances every year. You thought 9/11 was bad? Just think how bad it would have been had we not run that one past the supported command, the services, the FBI, etc., only a year or two before. Not the same scenario, but a mass terrorist attack on the homeland nonetheless, only in multiple cities. No response is perfect, and that certainly wasn't but it could have been a lot worse. We don't leave a whole lot to chance.

Every so often a tabloid will come out with a breathless article about--OMG--the US has a plan to invade Lichtenstein. Little to do people know we have a plan for invading-repelling every country in the world and what to do when we run out of paper clips.

[zraver]

yes but the doctrines that came after the end of the cold war and was predicated on precision bombing and RMA in communications are now useless. Your armies today would have to go back and relearn all the lessons learned in the cold war and start engaging in very expensive restocking cold war technology armaments.

The West's sat-net is just one part of RMA. Locally, even at the operational level it wont necessarily be a crippling loss. Advances in other areas like FLIR, Radar, digitized battle management/IFF, etc still work better than anything anyone else has. Plus our commanders have real world experience in using all these systems in an integrated way.

Finally, the main loss of capability will be remote sensing and real time communications between some theater assets and the theater commander and then back to CONUS and vice versa. No more BHO watching OBL get double tapped and seeing whats more than 400ish miles away starts to be a problem.

However, something to be considered- if the US lost its constellation of early warning sats.......

[gf0012-aust]

You know, there is an OPLAN or CONPLAN on the shelf in the Pentagon for every eventuality. "Fidel dies and Cuba folds like a cheap camera?" There's a plan for that. They are written by the geographic or functional commanders, reviewed by the Joint Staff and the services, and approved by SECDEF. We take them out every two years to review and update them. For example, I read the version of the OPLAN for Iraq twice in three years. As you all know, it didn't go as planned, but that's why we have branches and sequels. The point of all this is that there are bright young minds who are paid to think of all of these horrible but nonetheless interesting scenarios and then write a plan for dealing with it. We even war game them in exercises like "Top Off" and "Eligible Receiver" with a different set of circumstances every year. You thought 9/11 was bad? Just think how bad it would have been had we not run that one past the supported command, the services, the FBI, etc., only a year or two before. Not the same scenario, but a mass terrorist attack on the homeland nonetheless, only in multiple cities. No response is perfect, and that certainly wasn't but it could have been a lot worse. We don't leave a whole lot to chance.

australia has a similar process in place - referred to (prev} as the combat capability scenarios

if the PM gets woken up at 2am because NZ has invaded Malaysia or "Kaznia" has decided to hold all westerners hostage in Fiji, the relevant CCS is trotted out as a baseline option. It's then modified on the fly to suit the evolving situation.

Its designed to deal with the "Oh $h!t what do we do next" planning vacuums that happen if you're not switched on

[Doktor]

The thing about the latter event is that the system actually worked the way it's supposed to. The grid did emergency load shedding to save itself to fight another day. Again, not a perfect system, but the fact that it all works together at all never ceases to amaze me.

That's me whenever on a train or in subway. So many humans in the process...

[desertswo]

Happened twice already. Two organization hit us and hit us bad.

Ice Storm 98 by Mother Nature
Black Out 2003 by Bad Luck

The thing about the latter event is that the system actually worked the way it's supposed to. The grid did emergency load shedding to save itself to fight another day. Again, not a perfect system, but the fact that it all works together at all never ceases to amaze me.

I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.

Happened twice already. Two organization hit us and hit us bad.

Ice Storm 98 by Mother Nature
Black Out 2003 by Bad Luck

[desertswo]

You know, there is an OPLAN or CONPLAN on the shelf in the Pentagon for every eventuality. "Fidel dies and Cuba folds like a cheap camera?" There's a plan for that. They are written by the geographic or functional commanders, reviewed by the Joint Staff and the services, and approved by SECDEF. We take them out every two years to review and update them. For example, I read the version of the OPLAN for Iraq twice in three years. As you all know, it didn't go as planned, but that's why we have branches and sequels. The point of all this is that there are bright young minds who are paid to think of all of these horrible but nonetheless interesting scenarios and then write a plan for dealing with it. We even war game them in exercises like "Top Off" and "Eligible Receiver" with a different set of circumstances every year. You thought 9/11 was bad? Just think how bad it would have been had we not run that one past the supported command, the services, the FBI, etc., only a year or two before. Not the same scenario, but a mass terrorist attack on the homeland nonetheless, only in multiple cities. No response is perfect, and that certainly wasn't but it could have been a lot worse. We don't leave a whole lot to chance.

[Mihais]

I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.

Nothing special or new.Emergency state or martial law.Food,water and medicine distributed on a need to have basis.You object too much or you think you have the right to loot,you die.
But that's an unlikely scenario.The networks and databases aren't as vulnerable as they seem.

[payeng]

I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.

[Mihais]

Something based on graphene. Samsung patents graphene networks for touch screens - Graphene Tracker

But it will still be foldable,like a paper map.The best of both worlds.

[Doktor]

Engineers still use maps. It's a bitch trying to carry a 36 inch screen.

What will US Corps of Engineers carry?
Pentagon agency creating digital map of the world

But how often do you practice them in the field exercises?

Engineers still use maps. It's a bitch trying to carry a 36 inch screen.

[gf0012-aust]

yes but the doctrines that came after the end of the cold war and was predicated on precision bombing and RMA in communications are now useless. Your armies today would have to go back and relearn all the lessons learned in the cold war and start engaging in very expensive restocking cold war technology armaments.

can't speak for the US, but for us its still core training.

craft is about core skills, basic skills, and being able to fight without your tech advances.

Its pretty apparent that red team will do the same as you, ie try to render you blind, deaf and dumb so that you're fighting in an information vacuum - so you train to be able to still fight on your terms without the tech if need be.

[Blademaster]

We still teach, and use map and compass and land navigation.

But how often do you practice them in the field exercises?