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  • Much like the cult of the emporer in Japan prior and during WWII
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

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    • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
      Much like the cult of the emporer in Japan prior and during WWII
      That's an interesting comparison.

      I believe the Japanese devotion to their Emperor was every bit as intense, if not more, than the North Koreans for Supreme Leader.

      Interestingly, since Communism is officially atheist, Dear Leader isn't technically considered a god, but the fervor comes close.

      I wonder... if you could go back in time with nice color video equipment and interview Japanese soldiers in 1938 or thereabouts, if it would parallel what we see now from NK. My guess (given their culture of manners) is that it wouldn't be so bombastic, but probably every bit as sincere. And that said, I wonder if, in war, the average NK soldier would show the extreme devotion to duty as his earlier Japanese counterpart.

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      • not sure this has been reported here or not

        http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...032201009.html
        China Ships No Oil to N.Korea in February

        China suspended shipments of crude oil to North Korea in February, Reuters reported on Thursday quoting Chinese customs data.

        China, North Korea's sole real ally, normally supplies 30,000-50,000 tons of crude oil a month to the North. Its crude oil shipments to North Korea totaled 523,041 tons in 2012.

        Some believe the suspension of shipments is further evidence that Beijing is losing patience with Pyongyang's brinkmanship tactics. They suspect it was triggered by the North’s refusal to listen to Beijing and cancel its nuclear test on Feb. 12.

        But a South Korean government official dismissed the speculation, saying it is quite usual for China not to ship crude oil to the North in February due to seasonal factors.

        According to the Korea International Trade Association in Seoul, China several times shipped no crude oil to the North in February between 2000 and 2012. There were only February shipments in four years -- 2001, 2004, 2009, and 2010 -- over the past 13 years, and their volume was well below average.

        The problem is that the Chinese government's official data do not reflect the whole picture. "China's free aid shipments of crude oil to the North aren't reflected in customs data," a Unification Ministry official here said. "So if no shipments are shown, it doesn't necessarily mean that there were none."

        "It's possible that China actually sent crude oil shipments to the North in the form of unofficial aid," he added.

        A diplomatic source in Beijing said, "There's no report yet that China has cut off crude oil shipments to the North. I don't think there's an urgent reason for China to take such an extreme measure."

        But another source said, "It's possible that China temporarily delayed crude oil supplies" to rap the North over the knuckles. In fact, rumors circulated for a while last month in Dandong that China cut off crude supplies.
        “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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        • Originally posted by xinhui View Post
          not sure this has been reported here or not

          The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - China Ships No Oil to N.Korea in February
          China Ships No Oil to N.Korea in February

          China suspended shipments of crude oil to North Korea in February, Reuters reported on Thursday quoting Chinese customs data.

          China, North Korea's sole real ally, normally supplies 30,000-50,000 tons of crude oil a month to the North. Its crude oil shipments to North Korea totaled 523,041 tons in 2012.

          Some believe the suspension of shipments is further evidence that Beijing is losing patience with Pyongyang's brinkmanship tactics. They suspect it was triggered by the North’s refusal to listen to Beijing and cancel its nuclear test on Feb. 12.

          But a South Korean government official dismissed the speculation, saying it is quite usual for China not to ship crude oil to the North in February due to seasonal factors.

          According to the Korea International Trade Association in Seoul, China several times shipped no crude oil to the North in February between 2000 and 2012. There were only February shipments in four years -- 2001, 2004, 2009, and 2010 -- over the past 13 years, and their volume was well below average.

          The problem is that the Chinese government's official data do not reflect the whole picture. "China's free aid shipments of crude oil to the North aren't reflected in customs data," a Unification Ministry official here said. "So if no shipments are shown, it doesn't necessarily mean that there were none."

          "It's possible that China actually sent crude oil shipments to the North in the form of unofficial aid," he added.

          A diplomatic source in Beijing said, "There's no report yet that China has cut off crude oil shipments to the North. I don't think there's an urgent reason for China to take such an extreme measure."

          But another source said, "It's possible that China temporarily delayed crude oil supplies" to rap the North over the knuckles. In fact, rumors circulated for a while last month in Dandong that China cut off crude supplies.
          Last time, Kim the Fat II capitulated after a couple months without oil. Don't know if Kim The Fat III could outdo and outlast his dad.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Chogy View Post
            Interestingly, since Communism is officially atheist, Dear Leader isn't technically considered a god, but the fervor comes close.
            My son, who's something of a student of history, pointed out that, technically, there IS no living "Great Leader", since his father was appointed as the "Eternal President of the Republic" before his death. Could this be why younger Kim is trying to "prove himself"?
            "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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            • You know, sometimes I think Kim III had a very good chance to turn the table around for NK when his father died. He was the new leader, he could have set a new path out for NK, seek out china for advise to open up NK, chose a path of socializism with korean charactistics.There may have been resistence in the begining but when the NK wons start piling up, everyone will be too busy making money to care about whos NK's king. Kim could have been NK's Deng. His young but there is already a model to follow, could not have been that hard??

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
                You know, sometimes I think Kim III had a very good chance to turn the table around for NK when his father died. He was the new leader, he could have set a new path out for NK, seek out china for advise to open up NK, chose a path of socializism with korean charactistics.There may have been resistence in the begining but when the NK wons start piling up, everyone will be too busy making money to care about whos NK's king. Kim could have been NK's Deng. His young but there is already a model to follow, could not have been that hard??
                If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

                Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.

                Comment


                • Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

                    Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.
                    KIM III has no credential. He is no Deng. If he started any reform, he would be removed from power immediately. That is why he is trying to consolidate his power through radicalization, but his dad should tell him that he should always have a plan to back down from his empty threats. Maybe I underestimated his stupidity, or he is just that smart that he has a way out of it without looking foolish.
                    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
                    I don't believe this is the reason.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
                      Does he mean through inaction that NK will lose a million or if South marches now, a million NKs will die? I do not get your statement.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

                        Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.
                        Yes, Deng is really a man I have a lot of respect for. I did not want to compare Kim III with Deng. But looking through the current NK leardership, there is really no one but Kim III who has the position to be a Deng, he is the new king.And China was ready to help, in the past years, China did tell NK to follow China's road (there were some news articles, but could not find them now). It would not have been easy, but with a helping china and model to follow, it must have been a lot easier then deng.

                        After some thought, I think, you are right. Deng had vision, something very little people has.Without vision, the rest is just rubbish talk.

                        Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
                        I am a optimistic kind of person. I still kind of have the feeling that NK will see through all the past mistakes and pick itshelf up. Despite of all the current negitive things going on in NK, she is still holding on and have not collapsed, which means the NK people is a capable people, all they really need is a man of vision. I know this may sound naive, but I believe the chinese phase 乱世出英雄(Heroes emerge in troubled times.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
                          he is the new king.And China was ready to help, in the past years, China did tell NK to follow China's road (there were some news articles, but could not find them now). It would not have been easy, but with a helping china and model to follow, it must have been a lot easier then deng.
                          Every young king is powerless in his tender year. He needs to prove himself first. Kim the fat obtained his power and his entitlement of power through his grandfather and father's legacy. It is much more easier for Kim to consolidate his power by taking a hardline position. If he wanted to make changes, he needs to seek help. Kim the fat is not going to ally himself with CCP and strengthens the pro-china faction. He would rather choose to play a balance between the pro-china and anti-china factions within his country. Ultimately, Kim would probably prefer a stronger anti-china faction.



                          I am a optimistic kind of person. I still kind of have the feeling that NK will see through all the past mistakes and pick itshelf up. Despite of all the current negitive things going on in NK, she is still holding on and have not collapsed, which means the NK people is a capable people, all they really need is a man of vision. I know this may sound naive, but I believe the chinese phase 乱世出英雄(Heroes emerge in troubled times.
                          A man of vision isn't going to save NK. Deng is Deng because he is Deng and because there is Zhou and a few other generals that are willing to put a stop of some nonsense. However, Deng is powerless against Mao. The only hope for NK is to accept the terms that the CCP lays down, but NK and KIM won't accept these terms. They think they could blackmail the US and sit face to face with US at equal footing and negotiate.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                            Does he mean through inaction that NK will lose a million or if South marches now, a million NKs will die? I do not get your statement.
                            To get to the rockets, bio-chems, and nukes in time before they can launch, anything resembling civilization will be attacked and that means roads, bridges, assembly points, electrical plants, water and sewage treatment plants, TV stations, as well as direct military targets. You isolate large pockets of civilians from their sources of food, water, heat, and medical help, in fact, you isolate them period. And if they show any kind of resistance against oncoming units, they too will be attacked.

                            Basically, we're going to nuke North Korea without using nukes.

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                            • Now I get it. That's why the regime is keeping them underfed and has all those tractors.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kyli View Post
                                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
                                I don't believe this is the reason.
                                In the final analysis, it is the cost. To do what we need to do to eliminate the North Korean WMD threat, we have to destroy North Korea which means an immediate upfront and not a gradual financial cost to stabilize the country and bury their dead.

                                It's a humanitarian disaster no matter which way you look at it and Seoul will have to foot the cost.

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