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  • Blademaster
    replied
    Originally posted by chanjyj View Post
    This.

    Then it would have to be a bloody and violent overthrow of the regime before economic reforms can take place. Does not bode well for the future of NK.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blademaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    To get to the rockets, bio-chems, and nukes in time before they can launch, anything resembling civilization will be attacked and that means roads, bridges, assembly points, electrical plants, water and sewage treatment plants, TV stations, as well as direct military targets. You isolate large pockets of civilians from their sources of food, water, heat, and medical help, in fact, you isolate them period. And if they show any kind of resistance against oncoming units, they too will be attacked.

    Basically, we're going to nuke North Korea without using nukes.
    Sir I think that is overkill because any nuke or chem weapon that can be launched has to be launched on the first couple days. Once the first couple days are past, the momentum entirely belongs to SK and the NK would be totally on the defensive. The national command release authority would be broken up and too dispersed anyway to put together a coherent command. Once the NK field generals hear nothing coming out of Pyongyang, they would quickly do a cost and benefit analysis and if the SKs are smart enough to bribe the NK field generals with promises of cash and easy retirement and food/supplies for the starving troops, I am sure that the routes would easily open up.

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  • chanjyj
    replied
    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    Or the regime has to go because to do the economic reforms would mean thinking that the dynasty was the problem and has to go?
    This.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blademaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    In the final analysis, it is the cost. To do what we need to do to eliminate the North Korean WMD threat, we have to destroy North Korea which means an immediate upfront and not a gradual financial cost to stabilize the country and bury their dead.

    It's a humanitarian disaster no matter which way you look at it and Seoul will have to foot the cost.
    Looks like that Seoul is hoping that Kim will turn out to be better than his father. What do you think of the posts suggesting that he can pull off a Deng move once he consolidate his power? So far, he is just mouthing off and moving a couple rockets, hardly a game changer but is making moves to off anybody who could challenge him.

    I am curious, what makes NK so xenophobic? What would the regime have to do in order to go the Chinese way, i.e., keep the party in power but pull off economic reforms? Or the regime has to go because to do the economic reforms would mean thinking that the dynasty was the problem and has to go?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by kyli View Post
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
    I don't believe this is the reason.
    In the final analysis, it is the cost. To do what we need to do to eliminate the North Korean WMD threat, we have to destroy North Korea which means an immediate upfront and not a gradual financial cost to stabilize the country and bury their dead.

    It's a humanitarian disaster no matter which way you look at it and Seoul will have to foot the cost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doktor
    replied
    Now I get it. That's why the regime is keeping them underfed and has all those tractors.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    Does he mean through inaction that NK will lose a million or if South marches now, a million NKs will die? I do not get your statement.
    To get to the rockets, bio-chems, and nukes in time before they can launch, anything resembling civilization will be attacked and that means roads, bridges, assembly points, electrical plants, water and sewage treatment plants, TV stations, as well as direct military targets. You isolate large pockets of civilians from their sources of food, water, heat, and medical help, in fact, you isolate them period. And if they show any kind of resistance against oncoming units, they too will be attacked.

    Basically, we're going to nuke North Korea without using nukes.

    Leave a comment:


  • kyli
    replied
    Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
    he is the new king.And China was ready to help, in the past years, China did tell NK to follow China's road (there were some news articles, but could not find them now). It would not have been easy, but with a helping china and model to follow, it must have been a lot easier then deng.
    Every young king is powerless in his tender year. He needs to prove himself first. Kim the fat obtained his power and his entitlement of power through his grandfather and father's legacy. It is much more easier for Kim to consolidate his power by taking a hardline position. If he wanted to make changes, he needs to seek help. Kim the fat is not going to ally himself with CCP and strengthens the pro-china faction. He would rather choose to play a balance between the pro-china and anti-china factions within his country. Ultimately, Kim would probably prefer a stronger anti-china faction.



    I am a optimistic kind of person. I still kind of have the feeling that NK will see through all the past mistakes and pick itshelf up. Despite of all the current negitive things going on in NK, she is still holding on and have not collapsed, which means the NK people is a capable people, all they really need is a man of vision. I know this may sound naive, but I believe the chinese phase 乱世出英雄(Heroes emerge in troubled times.
    A man of vision isn't going to save NK. Deng is Deng because he is Deng and because there is Zhou and a few other generals that are willing to put a stop of some nonsense. However, Deng is powerless against Mao. The only hope for NK is to accept the terms that the CCP lays down, but NK and KIM won't accept these terms. They think they could blackmail the US and sit face to face with US at equal footing and negotiate.

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  • Tennetc
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

    Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.
    Yes, Deng is really a man I have a lot of respect for. I did not want to compare Kim III with Deng. But looking through the current NK leardership, there is really no one but Kim III who has the position to be a Deng, he is the new king.And China was ready to help, in the past years, China did tell NK to follow China's road (there were some news articles, but could not find them now). It would not have been easy, but with a helping china and model to follow, it must have been a lot easier then deng.

    After some thought, I think, you are right. Deng had vision, something very little people has.Without vision, the rest is just rubbish talk.

    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
    I am a optimistic kind of person. I still kind of have the feeling that NK will see through all the past mistakes and pick itshelf up. Despite of all the current negitive things going on in NK, she is still holding on and have not collapsed, which means the NK people is a capable people, all they really need is a man of vision. I know this may sound naive, but I believe the chinese phase 乱世出英雄(Heroes emerge in troubled times.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blademaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
    Does he mean through inaction that NK will lose a million or if South marches now, a million NKs will die? I do not get your statement.

    Leave a comment:


  • kyli
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

    Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.
    KIM III has no credential. He is no Deng. If he started any reform, he would be removed from power immediately. That is why he is trying to consolidate his power through radicalization, but his dad should tell him that he should always have a plan to back down from his empty threats. Maybe I underestimated his stupidity, or he is just that smart that he has a way out of it without looking foolish.
    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.
    I don't believe this is the reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Was talking to my RSM and I mused that I really don't understand why the South just doesn't march north. Sooner or later, they will have to pay for the North, so why not bite the bullet. He replied that because a million North Koreans will die.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
    You know, sometimes I think Kim III had a very good chance to turn the table around for NK when his father died. He was the new leader, he could have set a new path out for NK, seek out china for advise to open up NK, chose a path of socializism with korean charactistics.There may have been resistence in the begining but when the NK wons start piling up, everyone will be too busy making money to care about whos NK's king. Kim could have been NK's Deng. His young but there is already a model to follow, could not have been that hard??
    If being Deng Xia Peng was easy, anyone could have done it. The fact was Deng was a far tougher man than any of the Kims could ever be. He grabbed 1 billion lazy Chinese quite comfortable living in the 19th Century and kicked their collective butts into the 21st Century. A truly amazing feat that is unmatched anywhere else in history.

    Kim the Fat does not have Deng's vision, experience, will, and quite frankly, Kim does not have Deng's balls.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tennetc
    replied
    You know, sometimes I think Kim III had a very good chance to turn the table around for NK when his father died. He was the new leader, he could have set a new path out for NK, seek out china for advise to open up NK, chose a path of socializism with korean charactistics.There may have been resistence in the begining but when the NK wons start piling up, everyone will be too busy making money to care about whos NK's king. Kim could have been NK's Deng. His young but there is already a model to follow, could not have been that hard??

    Leave a comment:


  • Stitch
    replied
    Originally posted by Chogy View Post
    Interestingly, since Communism is officially atheist, Dear Leader isn't technically considered a god, but the fervor comes close.
    My son, who's something of a student of history, pointed out that, technically, there IS no living "Great Leader", since his father was appointed as the "Eternal President of the Republic" before his death. Could this be why younger Kim is trying to "prove himself"?

    Leave a comment:

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