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Cold War: Breach of the Fulda Gap Scenario

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  • Originally posted by 1979 View Post
    But they do not have the fancy delivery systems, (no Pershing, no Lance), honest johns and artillery shells can reach 20 -30 km inside enemy territory and fighter bombers with free fall bombs have to punch trough enemy air defenses, which leads me to believe there were meant to be used on Turkish soil.
    Nukes are meant for assembly points and most of those are on WP soil.

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    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      In theory yes but what really was stopping those Germans F-4s and Canadian CF-104s from going on their merry way except orders?
      Ermmm... wasn't there dual key mode with one key in USA and the other in NATO country?
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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      • The dual key is that the US controls the warheads and the allied country controls the delivery vehicles. American servicemen are the only ones who can armed the nukes to be delivered by allied delivery vehicles.

        However, up until the late 70s, nukes were controlled by a physical key. The keys were kept at the base where the nukes were stored. When the nukes were mounted onto their delivery vehicles for an armed patrol, it was general practice to arm them.

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        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          The keys were kept at the base where the nukes were stored.
          However, in general nukes weren't kept at the same base as their delivery vehicles with the exception of the QRA-N deployments. "Armed Patrol" in the case of a German QRA-N meant that armed nukes were hanging from a F-104G (or later a Tornado) which was guarded by US soldiers, both aircraft and soldiers sitting in a shelter that was itself guarded by German soldiers. Same for e.g. German Nike Hercules batteries on nuclear alert.

          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          In theory yes but what really was stopping those Germans F-4s and Canadian CF-104s from going on their merry way except orders?
          The fact that German F-4s aren't nuke-capable
          Last edited by kato; 16 Apr 12,, 20:03.

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          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            Nukes are meant for assembly points and most of those are on WP soil.
            I would prefer hiting the target with cruise missiles instead of taking on Warsaw pact air defenses with sabres or starfighters.
            Last edited by 1979; 16 Apr 12,, 20:16.
            J'ai en marre.

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            • Originally posted by kato View Post
              However, in general nukes weren't kept at the same base as their delivery vehicles with the exception of the QRA-N deployments.
              makes sense , that way you need to target both the nukes and the delivery means instead of taking them out with one blow.

              Originally posted by kato View Post
              The fact that German F-4s aren't nuke-capable
              AFAIK they were not even wired to fire the aim -7 sparrow until after the cold war.
              Last edited by 1979; 16 Apr 12,, 20:18.
              J'ai en marre.

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              • Originally posted by 1979 View Post
                makes sense , that way you need to target both the nukes and the delivery means instead of taking them out with one blow.
                If you target only one of those and successfully destroy them, what would the enemy do with the other parts?
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 1979 View Post
                  But they do not have the fancy delivery systems, (no Pershing, no Lance), honest johns and artillery shells can reach 20 -30 km inside enemy territory and fighter bombers with free fall bombs have to punch trough enemy air defenses, which leads me to believe there were meant to be used on Turkish soil.
                  They do not have them anymore, where were the Pershing and then Pershing II's located again?

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                  • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                    If you target only one of those and successfully destroy them, what would the enemy do with the other parts?
                    they can get more nukes from us stocks and the delivery could be assigned to other NATO aircraft.
                    J'ai en marre.

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                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      They do not have them anymore, where were the Pershing and then Pershing II's located again?
                      Germany ?
                      J'ai en marre.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        Carriers are keeping the Backfires off of the merchant ships.
                        Backfire strikes were probably the only thing that really scared me....

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                        • Italy and Turkey initially had Jupiters as long-range delivery systems. Until Cuba.

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                          • Originally posted by kato View Post
                            However, in general nukes weren't kept at the same base as their delivery vehicles with the exception of the QRA-N deployments. "Armed Patrol" in the case of a German QRA-N meant that armed nukes were hanging from a F-104G (or later a Tornado) which was guarded by US soldiers, both aircraft and soldiers sitting in a shelter that was itself guarded by German soldiers. Same for e.g. German Nike Hercules batteries on nuclear alert.
                            Ours were on the runway, ready to go.

                            Originally posted by kato View Post
                            The fact that German F-4s aren't nuke-capable
                            Har-de-har-har

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                            • Originally posted by kato View Post
                              Italy and Turkey initially had Jupiters as long-range delivery systems. Until Cuba.
                              The Jupiter like the Thor (which was based in England ) were stop gap measures until the US got a true silo based ICBM , the Titan I.
                              J'ai en marre.

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