Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My Lai Massacre

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • My Lai Massacre

    I was just reading about My Lai in wikipedia and learned that although 350 - 500 civilians were killed by U.S. marines only a single officer was convicted at the court martial. He was senteced to life and served only 3.5 years at house arrest.

    What kind of justice is this? What I understand from the article is that army acknowledges civilians were killed so how can they justify 350 unaccounted murder case?

  • #2
    Originally posted by TTL View Post
    I was just reading about My Lai in wikipedia and learned that although 350 - 500 civilians were killed by U.S. marines only a single officer was convicted at the court martial. He was senteced to life and served only 3.5 years at house arrest.

    What kind of justice is this? What I understand from the article is that army acknowledges civilians were killed so how can they justify 350 unaccounted murder case?
    TTL,

    The soldiers involved were not Marines, they were from the 23rd Infantry Division.

    I have not read much about My Lai specifically, but the judicial outcomes do not surprise me, sadly. My Lai was the largest & best known of perhaps hundreds of such incidents carried out by US forces. Only a small fraction of those involved were ever prosecuted.

    I am not qualified to explain why this was so. I don't know if the explanation is specific to Vietnam, or whether the reasons have more to do with institutional factors common to militaries at war. There was no burning desire among those on the ground in Vietnam to have to deal with issues like this, as shown by the initial coverup. Certainly Nixon's pardon of Calley was entirely political, but this doesn't necessarily explain what happened in the Army.

    It is practically inevitable in a discussion like this that someone will jump in with 'yes, but the enemy were worse'. This may or may not be factually accurate, but it is also entirely beside the point. The reversion to this sort of defence in the face of wrongdoing by one's own side is simply avoidance. We need to hold ourselves to the highest standards of behavior, not use the low standards of others to excuse our failings.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

    Comment


    • #3
      It is horrific and should not have came to pass. Trials for wartime atrocities however had rarely produced 'just' results. Take Malmedy Massacre; unambiguous evidence of mass atrocity, suspects found guilty as charged, but all walked away commuted. That was a victor's trial.

      It would be exceedingly difficult to prosecute all involved in a large scale massacre; the trials would be lengthy, hotly contested, and political; the social upheavel that would arise from a through trial confined the punishment of war crimes a mostly symbolic gesture.

      It's a sad state of affairs but we have yet to have come up with a satisfactory solution.
      All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
      -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

      Comment


      • #4
        the saddest thing after the crime itself, was the threatment of Hugh Thompson and his crew afterwards.

        uhm Triple C the Malmedy Massacre was where German troops killed American soldiers and not the other way around. Did you maybe think of the Biscari massacre in Sicily?
        Last edited by Tarek Morgen; 03 Jul 08,, 08:38.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TTL View Post
          I was just reading about My Lai in wikipedia and learned that although 350 - 500 civilians were killed by U.S. marines only a single officer was convicted at the court martial. He was senteced to life and served only 3.5 years at house arrest.

          What kind of justice is this? What I understand from the article is that army acknowledges civilians were killed so how can they justify 350 unaccounted murder case?
          An Account of the My Lai Courts-Martial

          Comment


          • #6
            A very courageous and principled man Mr Thompson. Utterly shameful the way he was treated.
            For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
              It is practically inevitable in a discussion like this that someone will jump in with 'yes, but the enemy were worse'. This may or may not be factually accurate, but it is also entirely beside the point. The reversion to this sort of defence in the face of wrongdoing by one's own side is simply avoidance. We need to hold ourselves to the highest standards of behavior, not use the low standards of others to excuse our failings.
              Well said.
              Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
              (Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)

              Comment


              • #8
                I believe such massacres unevitably happen during wartime. Frontline soldiers are not usually the cream of their society and warfare is very stressfull business. But this particular case is especially well documented complete with witness testimonies and photos, however the fact that president can still intervene on behalf of the convicted murderer shows me that we are not much different from our ancient ancestors and ideals like human rights - genoa convention etc. are only respected when its convenient to do so.

                By the way thank you dave, the article you posted was very informative.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TTL View Post
                  I believe such massacres unevitably happen during wartime. Frontline soldiers are not usually the cream of their society and warfare is very stressfull business. But this particular case is especially well documented complete with witness testimonies and photos, however the fact that president can still intervene on behalf of the convicted murderer shows me that we are not much different from our ancient ancestors and ideals like human rights - genoa convention etc. are only respected when its convenient to do so.

                  By the way thank you dave, the article you posted was very informative.
                  Rica ederim!:)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Anyone please share some realities of killings in Iraq invasion, Afghanistan invasion, and recently south Ossetia invasion.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by NewBeginning; 18 Sep 08,, 06:59.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      New Beginning,

                      If you can't explain yourself a bit better I suspect you will have a Rapid Ending.

                      If you want to talk about alleged atrocities in any of the wars you mention then provide some specifics.

                      So far you have provided some propaganda from the Communist Vietnamese & US anti-war movement. I have read both. They are so far beyond being unreliable that they are worthless. The Vietnamese stuff almost qualifies as bad comedy.

                      The camera may never lie, but the camera doesn't really tell you much about what you are seeing. Generally we have to rely on captioning & writing surrounding a photo to deciper it. Is that really the village of Ben Suc? Is that even US artillery? Did those soldiers actually kill those men? Is that woman really being 'targetted' by US soldiers? can you even tell if that is actual torture or a mock up?

                      Posting these photos for any reason is pretty pointless, but you haven't really given a reason. In fact, you didn't say anything about Vietnam. Best you explain yourself a bit better.

                      I am not denying that any or all of these things may have happened. As I stated, US forces committed numerous atrocities during the war. If, however, you plan to stay on these boards for very long you will have to make intelligible posts & stop posting crappy propaganda.

                      If the abuse of other WAB posters doesn't get you the moderators probably will.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        At one time, the Soviets had a whole big exhibit space devoted to "American atrocities" at the Red Army Museum in Moscow.

                        Some of the photos were obvious fabrications. Some of them, you didn't know what you were supposedly looking at. It could have been what was claimed in the caption, or it could have been any number of other things. Some of them were likely staged, and some of them might have been real. There was simply no way to tell.

                        Russians themselves didn't seem very moved by the exhibit, but those from Soviet satellites reacted quite strongly, especially those from the Third World equivalents of Komsomol. It was by far the most political hostility I ever experienced in a Communist (or similar) country.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                          uhm Triple C the Malmedy Massacre was where German troops killed American soldiers and not the other way around. Did you maybe think of the Biscari massacre in Sicily?
                          Tarek,

                          I mean that even when the Americans were trying the criminals of a vanquished enemy they were unable to make a conviction, except the commanding officer who was later pardonned.
                          Last edited by Triple C; 18 Sep 08,, 09:09.
                          All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                          -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                            Tarek,

                            I mean that even when the Americans were trying the criminals of a vanquished enemy they were unable to make a conviction, except the commanding officer who was later pardonned.
                            The German status as a "vanquished enemy" was fleeting, being rapidly replaced by their status as a co-enemy of the USSR. Live, commie-hating Germans -- even former Nazis who murdered unarmed American prisoners -- were seen as more valuable than dead Americans from a war that had ended.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, indeed. However, if the good will of an ex-enemy is more important than your own dead, how much more difficult is it to punish one of your own for unlawful killings of the enemy? IMHO, Mai Lay isn't a bright moment in American history, but few other nations bothered to hold their troops accountable for what they do to the enemy civilians at all.
                              All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                              -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X