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WWII Fighter Comparison II Corsair v Mustang.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    The Corsair was a naval fighter which was designed for fleet defense; the Mustang was an interceptor which became a strategic bomber escort. Both excelled in the designed roles and also were used effectively in other roles.
    Yes, AR, and the Corsair eventually 'got there' as a carrier fighter. Its early problems meant that the first to try it as such was the Royal Navy, which despite having been a pioneer in naval aviation went through much of the war with very poor aircraft of its own design.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by clackers View Post
      Yes, AR, and the Corsair eventually 'got there' as a carrier fighter. Its early problems meant that the first to try it as such was the Royal Navy, which despite having been a pioneer in naval aviation went through much of the war with very poor aircraft of its own design.
      Absolutely...and it was used with deadly effect by landbased USMC and USN squadrons in 1943-44.

      As I recall the problem was in the oleo struts being too stiff. The FAA figured it out and got them on their big deck carriers first...anything to repalce the Fairey Firefly!
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Chogy View Post
        That table is a nice find. It's interesting that the P-51 L/D max is superior even to light general aviation aircraft like a Cessna. But one must also remember that the shape of the L/D curve is telling. L/D max occurs at a particular airspeed at a given weight. Deviate from that airspeed, and the L/D changes. I'm suspecting that the P-51 has a generous curve in that L/D remains high. Draggier aircraft can take a much greater hit in L/D as the airspeed varies. More lift, less drag, equates to greater performance and less energy losses while maneuvering.

        The very best sailplanes have an L/D approaching 60, meaning one mile of altitude allows for 60 miles travel in still air. Pretty amazing. A sailplane at 16,000 feet or so can glide for nearly 180 miles.
        Would the superior L/D ratio of the Mustang be atributable to it's laminar-flow wing?
        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          Absolutely...and it was used with deadly effect by landbased USMC and USN squadrons in 1943-44.

          As I recall the problem was in the oleo struts being too stiff. The FAA figured it out and got them on their big deck carriers first...anything to repalce the Fairey Firefly!


          ????

          The Firefly did not enter service until 44. By then the FAA was using Gruman martlets (wildcats) and hellcats and Supermarine Seafires with the previous Fairey Fulmar beign relegated to recon and torpedo bomber crew training.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Stitch View Post
            Would the superior L/D ratio of the Mustang be atributable to it's laminar-flow wing?
            Imho no.
            appendix-c
            Pi= 3.1415
            aspect ratio A = 5.83
            airplane efficiency factor epsilon = 0.7588
            Zero-lift drag coefficient= 0.0163

            The sailplanes Chogy mentioned do it by using very high aspect ratio wings,
            in the Mustang is because of the zero-lift drag coefficient.
            J'ai en marre.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              ????

              The Firefly did not enter service until 44. By then the FAA was using Gruman martlets (wildcats) and hellcats and Supermarine Seafires with the previous Fairey Fulmar beign relegated to recon and torpedo bomber crew training.
              I meant to say Fulmar...but the info I have said the Firefly entered FAA service in 1943.

              Regardless, the British aricraft industry was unable to build an effective long range naval fighter during the war and had to turn to US sources...and it was the FAA which figured out how to effectively land a Corsair on a carrier....the curved landing approach.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • #52
                the F4U did prove its superiority by shooting down P-51s during the last air combat of WW2 planes.

                No Corsairs were lost to Mustangs.

                The Corsairs also had a longer production run. From 1940-1952.

                Flew from Carrier decks until 1965.

                Shot down a MIG-15

                And is the official airplane of Connecticut.

                The Marine Corps plane wins
                Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                  the F4U did prove its superiority by shooting down P-51s during the last air combat of WW2 planes.

                  No Corsairs were lost to Mustangs.

                  The Corsairs also had a longer production run. From 1940-1952.

                  Flew from Carrier decks until 1965.

                  Shot down a MIG-15

                  And is the official airplane of Connecticut.

                  The Marine Corps plane wins
                  The last air combat between WWII era warbirds was Corsair v Corsair and the Corsair proved even better at shooting down the Corsair than it was at shooting down Mustangs.

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                  • #54
                    P-51 shot down during the Soccer War by Corsair also. After the P-51 was shot down they were grounded. Those that were flown by US mercs refused to dogfight and would fly away. The Honduras AF ruled the sky in their F4Us
                    Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                      Regardless, the British aricraft industry was unable to build an effective long range naval fighter during the war and had to turn to US sources...and it was the FAA which figured out how to effectively land a Corsair on a carrier....the curved landing approach.
                      You're quite right, AR, they clipped 8 inches off each of those gull wings to allow better storage below decks in the British fashion, and forgave its poor pilot visibility and tendency to bounce on landing.

                      Part of the reason for the lousy state of British naval aviation were exercises in the 1930s (pre-radar, of course) that suggested a few fighters stood little chance of stopping inbound enemy aircraft. RN carriers tended to assume enemy aircraft would 'get through', and as a result were armoured and depended on AA gunnery from themselves and their escorts. Three weeks into the war, the commander of Ark Royal put his Skua fighters below deck with their tanks drained of petrol.

                      It's hard to turn around a mistake of this magnitude, so by the end of the war, the US provided over half of the Fleet Air Arm's aircraft, with Hellcats and Corsairs supplementing the Seafires and Firebrands, and the TBM Avenger being preferred to the Fairey Barracuda.

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                      • #56
                        Those armored deck carriers were effective though. They saved the RN from the fate of American ships like the Bunker Hill, Yorktown, Lexington, Wasp, Hornet and Langley all sunk by air. Except for the unarmored Hermes, RN losses were to gun fire or submarines not enemy air action.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                          P-51 shot down during the Soccer War by Corsair also. After the P-51 was shot down they were grounded. Those that were flown by US mercs refused to dogfight and would fly away. The Honduras AF ruled the sky in their F4Us
                          Yes, but the Soccer War is hardly proof. Like I said the F4U shot down more F4U's in that war than it did P-51s. Most of the F4U's were also later F4U-5 or better variants which completely outclassed the older mustangs. Also given the P-51's known stability problems with its fusealge fuel tanks and the short ranges involved it may not have been a fair fight to start with.

                          Using just a couple of examples can lead to skewed results. For example if we compare the Brewster F2A Buffalo to the Supermarine Spitfire based on the combat results of when the two clashed we would conclude that the F2A was the better fighter. The Finnish F2A dominated the Spitfire the same way it did every other plane flown by the VVS. The P-51 and Corsair ended the war with almost identical win/loss ratios. yet the Mustang flew against the better equipped enemy and flew almost exclusively against enemy fighters while the Corsair faced more bombers.

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                          • #58
                            The P-51 and Corsair ended the war with almost identical win/loss ratios. yet the Mustang flew against the better equipped enemy and flew almost exclusively against enemy fighters while the Corsair faced more bombers.

                            Yes, but how many aircraft carriers did the P-51 operate from?
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              The P-51 and Corsair ended the war with almost identical win/loss ratios. yet the Mustang flew against the better equipped enemy and flew almost exclusively against enemy fighters while the Corsair faced more bombers.

                              Yes, but how many aircraft carriers did the P-51 operate from?
                              Just one really big one called Great Britain....

                              How many jets did the Corsair shoot down?
                              How many 800 miles one way missions did the Corsair fly?

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Those armored deck carriers were effective though. They saved the RN from the fate of American ships like the Bunker Hill, Yorktown, Lexington, Wasp, Hornet and Langley all sunk by air. Except for the unarmored Hermes, RN losses were to gun fire or submarines not enemy air action.
                                Bunker Hill wasn't sunk. She survived the war and was sold for scrap in 1973..

                                Yorktown (CV-5) Was sunk by torpedo while being towed after Midway.

                                Lexington received 2 torpedoes and 3 bombs. DC had righted her and put the fires out , and she was ready to take on aircraft when fuel vapors exploded below deck. The Navy put 2 torpedoes in her to sink the ship.

                                Wasp was sunk by submarine torpedoes.

                                The Hornet was sunk by japanese Destroyers. After the US Navy had tried to sink her with 9 torpedo's and around 400 rounds of 5".


                                No fleet carriers were sunk by air action alone.

                                The Princeton (CVL-23) St Lo (CVE-63) Ommaney Bay (CVE-79) and Bismark Sea (CVE-95) were sunk by aerial bombs or Kamikaze
                                Langley was a converted collier. Then converted to a seaplane tender. No longer a Aircraft Carrier. She was also scuttled.

                                Princeton (Indy class) was a stopgap measure that took the Sagamon design and put it on a light cruiser hull. The CVEs were purposely designed and built with only splinter protection. Thats how they laid down, built and commissioned 50 of them in less than 2 years

                                Your examples say nothing about any advantage of the armored flight deck concept. Nor were the RN carriers
                                Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

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