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The Nazis, Russians and Western Democracy

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  • The Nazis, Russians and Western Democracy




    My latest reason for hope:



    The last time the Nazis and Russians got together to try to overthrow democracy in Western Europe and America it just made the USA stronger.

    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  • #2
    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    The last time the Nazis and Russians got together to try to overthrow democracy in Western Europe and America it just made the USA stronger.
    Please show ME ANYWHERE where the M-R Pact was intended, stated or unstated, to overthrow democracy in Western Europe. YOU ARE EXTREMELY GUILTY OF REVISIONIST HISTORY! You know very well that Hitler and Stalin saw the M-R Pact as nothing more than to buy time to build armies to be used against each other.

    And I stated this plenty of times. It was true in 2016. It is true today. Trump is too stupid to be Putin's partner and Putin is way too smart to rely on Trump to do his part.
    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Mar 21,, 18:24.
    Chimo

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Please show ME ANYWHERE where the M-R Pact was intended, stated or unstated, to overthrow democracy in Western Europe. YOU ARE EXTREMELY GUILTY OF REVISIONIST HISTORY! You know very well that Hitler and Stalin saw the M-R Pact as nothing more than to buy time to build armies to be used against each other.

      And I stated this plenty of times. It was true in 2016. It is true today. Trump is too stupid to be Putin's partner and Putin is way too smart to rely on Trump to do his part.
      Sir, I don't want to speak for DOR, but I think he was using more humorous hyperbole and less in the literal sense.

      And I don't recall anybody considering Trump to be Putin's partner. Stooge, puppet, mark, sucker, useful idiot, all of those things absolutely and Putin certainly got his money's worth. But not hand-in-glove partner.
      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        Sir, I don't want to speak for for DOR, but I think he was using more humorous hyperbole and less in the literal sense.
        He forgot to add that the US became stronger because the Russians did the majority of the killing and dying. Western democracy was ONLY saved because Stalin demanded the Western allies invade France. Churchill was perfectly happy to be bogged down in Italy.

        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        And I don't recall anybody considering Trump to be Putin's partner. Stooge, puppet, mark, sucker, useful idiot, all of those things absolutely and Putin certainly got his money's worth. But not hand-in-glove partner.
        A simple google more than put up "evidence" of them helping each other. Remember the intel on Russian bounties on American servicemen? Everyone grabbed the headlines and thought Trump actively surpressed it when if you read through the details, you find that Trump have an attention deficit disorder and if you don't hammer the point days in and out, it's out the window.

        Case in point - the COVID crisis and both Birx and Fauci were hammering day-in, day-out and the US still was in a mess.

        You will find more than enough donkey badges to believe Trump was in cohoots with Putin. Like their elephant badges counterpart, no one bothers to read beyond the headlines, let alone gleam the raw intel.
        Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Mar 21,, 20:18.
        Chimo

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          He forgot to add that the US became stronger because the Russians did the majority of the killing and dying. Western democracy was ONLY saved because Stalin demanded the Western allies invade France. Churchill was perfectly happy to be bogged down in Italy.
          Sir, now you are guilty of a bit of revisionist history. The US wanted to get into France as early as 1942...FDR especially.

          Churchill set a moderating hand on FDR's ambition...as did Marshall. Marshall recognized they reduction of the Luftwaffe was needed for any successful invasion and wanted the USAAF to force the Luftwaffe to defend the homeland and get ground up. That is what was pushed through the Combined Chiefs of Staff.

          Certainly the USSR carried the majority of the burden but there is no discounting the results of the Battle of the Atlantic and the Air War on the overall outcome of the war, especially when the 8th & 12th Air Forces switched over to the Oil Program in 1944.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            Sir, now you are guilty of a bit of revisionist history.
            I stand corrected - very correctly I might add.

            The only thing I will say that had it not been for FDR, France would not have been invaded. As far as Churchill was concerned, Italy was the 2nd front the Western Allies promised Stalin. Stalin, however, was NOT happy.
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 18 Mar 21,, 14:30.
            Chimo

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              I stand corrected - very correctly I might add.

              The only thing I will say that had it not been for FDR, France would not have been invaded. As far as Churchill was concerned, Italy was the 2nd front the Western Allies promised Stalin. Stalin, however, was NOT happy.
              No argument there Sir. But the forces weren't there before 1944.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                Sir, I don't want to speak for DOR, but I think he was using more humorous hyperbole and less in the literal sense.

                And I don't recall anybody considering Trump to be Putin's partner. Stooge, puppet, mark, sucker, useful idiot, all of those things absolutely and Putin certainly got his money's worth. But not hand-in-glove partner.
                Thanks for understanding the difference between humorous comment and serious historical analysis.
                Trust me?
                I'm an economist!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DOR View Post
                  Thanks for understanding the difference between humorous comment and serious historical analysis.
                  HORSE PUCKEY! You believed this crap. Otherwise, you wouldn't have compared it to Trump-Putin.

                  Most Americans don't even know about the M-R Pact and you stated like it was a historic fact that Western European Democracies were under threat. FYI, it was the Western European Democracies who were doing the threatening but since you conviently were ignorant of that, you spout this little lie to boast your claim of a non-existing Trump-Putin collusion - of which I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVIDE ANY PROOF THAT TRUMP WAS FOLLOWING PUTIN'S ORDERS!
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 18 Mar 21,, 20:07.
                  Chimo

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    FYI, it was the Western European Democracies who were doing the threatening
                    Not Nazi Germany?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      Not Nazi Germany?
                      For someone who claims to be a Pole, what the hell did France and Great Britain told Hitler would happen if he marched into Poland? 2nd Question, did they follow through?
                      Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 19 Mar 21,, 07:20.
                      Chimo

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                      • #12
                        France and Britain had an alliance with Poland (which was being threatened). They had no need to 'threaten' anyone; they were bound by their alliance to declare war if (when) Poland was attacked. In the event they opened a "phony war" which did very little to help Poland.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by snapper View Post
                          France and Britain had an alliance with Poland (which was being threatened). They had no need to 'threaten' anyone; they were bound by their alliance to declare war if (when) Poland was attacked.
                          An ultamatum is not a threat? On what planet?

                          From Cambridge Dictionary

                          ultimatum
                          noun [ C ]
                          uk
                          /ˌʌltɪˈmeɪtəm/ us

                          a warning, usually the last and most threatening one in a series, in which someone is told that if they take a particular action, something unpleasant will happen to them:
                          The history says you are absolutely wrong! Read up! The threats were issued 1 Sept 1939 and 3 Sept 1939.

                          Originally posted by snapper View Post
                          In the event they opened a "phony war"
                          So the threat was carried out and there's nothing phony about WWII.

                          Originally posted by snapper View Post
                          which did very little to help Poland.
                          Poland was lost the second Czechoslavakia decided not to fight for the Sudetenland. Without full mobilization months before Hitler marched across the Polish boirder, neither France nor Great Britain had the armies that could crack the Seigfried Line in time to save Poland.
                          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 20 Mar 21,, 09:56.
                          Chimo

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                          • #14
                            I merely find it remarkable that of ALL the 'threats' in Europe at the time (the Soviet threat was also in play) you chose to highlight the secondary Anglo French threat to Germany which was in itself entirely dependent on Germany carrying through on it's on it's [primary] threat to Poland. A person with no knowledge of the truth reading your version of history may well surmise that the allies were the belligerents.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by snapper View Post
                              I merely find it remarkable that of ALL the 'threats' in Europe at the time (the Soviet threat was also in play) you chose to highlight the secondary Anglo French threat to Germany which was in itself entirely dependent on Germany carrying through on it's on it's [primary] threat to Poland. A person with no knowledge of the truth reading your version of history may well surmise that the allies were the belligerents.
                              Nice tap dancing when you're PROVEN WRONG! First you said that it was Nazi Germany doing the threatening. When proven wrong, you shifted the goal post that France and Britain never issued a threat. When proven wrong again, you shifted that the French and British threat was in response to German threat to Poland and then there was also the Soviet threat to Poland. All the while being wrong, wrong, and WRONG!

                              Of all the dumb revisionist history you could come up with. The CONTEXT was Nazi Germany's theat to Western Democracies, NOT POLAND. THAT THREAT TO GREAT BRITAIN AND FRANCE WAS NON-EXISTING! The threat to Germany by Great Britain and France, however, was EXTREMELY real. Great Britain and France outgunned and outmanned the HEER. So much so that Hitler offerred to place the HEER under British command in any future war in exchange for Polish territory.

                              Tell anyone that Hitler could march on Paris or London in 1939, he would laugh in your face. The idea of British and French armies marching on Berlin was keeping Berliners awake.

                              The fact that Hitler read London and Paris right did not mean he did not appreciate that enormity. He had to be finished with Poland before he could take on Paris and London and had it been a real war instead of staying in barracks, Hitler was counting on the Seigfreid Line to give him time to finish with Poland ... and he was correct. Both Paris and London thought they could not breach the Seigfreid Line to help Poland but instead started to prepare for the real war to come.

                              The Soviet threat to Germany was handled by Hitler through the M-R Pact.

                              THOSE ARE THE HISTORIC FACTS! NOT YOUR IMAGINATION THAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT POLAND. It was NOT! Polish armies could not even get into the middle of the Nazi-Soviet slugfest.
                              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 22 Mar 21,, 00:13.
                              Chimo

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