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What if: Western Allies vs Russia- 1945

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  • to:PubFather

    When reading about history - it's usually best to read more than one source, its what I learned at school :)


    allright,thanks for the link ,i knew about this,be sure.it was only another opinion..
    only,i dont like a hoky-poky style of discussion in such a thema.

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    • Bacque's estimate is ridiculous, but that some German POW's were mistreated is irrefutable, either through beating, extortion, or starvation. Mass graves filled with bodies of German POW's still turn up to this day.
      "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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      • Cry me a river...
        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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        • Originally posted by leibstandarte10
          Mass graves filled with bodies of German POW's still turn up to this day.
          Where?

          -dale

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          • [QUOTE=kurt]When reading about history - it's usually best to read more than one source, its what I learned at school :)


            allright,thanks for the link ,i knew about this,be sure.it was only another opinion..
            You're welcome... you seemed to stress that opinion quite strongly, which is why I felt it necessary to post.

            only,i dont like a hoky-poky style of discussion in such a thema.
            I'm not too fond of hoky-poky (or indeed the hoky-coky) either. I made the school reference simply because you stated in your original post
            ok,you are american and cannot belive this maybe because of kind of education you have
            which was a very unnecessary and sweeping statement...

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            • Originally posted by kurt
              i hope your isolationists wins the next ballots and world will relax for a time.
              best wishes from germany to them
              Neither major party is isolationist, and they are the only ones who have even the remotest chance. I wish that isolationists would win too (although probably for drastically different reasons than yourself). Isolationism really isn't on the mainstream American political spectrum anymore.

              But I'm not sure how great your education about America has been. You seem to have absorbed more rhetoric than fact.

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              • Originally posted by WeeGiZ
                hm, take a look at the biggest battles in the East front ant West front...Think number of Soviet/Allies divisions/infantry/armor involved not even close...
                The Soviet Red Army lost far more men and material in porportion to the Western Allies.

                Originally posted by WeeGiZ
                in early stages of WWII, Vermacht could defeat T-34/KVs just by 88mm AA gun, heavy LR artillery, bombing...almost every AT gun was obsolete against them.
                The same with Shermans in North Africa, which was well-nigh invulnerable to 37/50mm guns.

                Originally posted by WeeGiZ
                Soviets lost two generation just because France&UK did NOTHING
                Wrong. France tried to broker a defensive alliance between Russia and Eastern European states INCLUDING Poland. The latter refused because they didn't trust the Russians enough.
                All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                • Originally posted by troung View Post
                  Cry me a river...
                  Straight up.

                  The Nazis deserve EVERY abuse ever heaped upon them...and more.

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                  • I strongly disagree, but hey, it's your opinion. However, the old adage "two wrongs don't make a right" comes to mind.

                    And I refuse to be a part of another long heated debate about whether the Allies, both Western and Russian, had the right to abuse ordinary Wehrmacht soldiers because of what was happening on the home front. Both my position yours are clear, and that's that.
                    Last edited by leib10; 12 Oct 06,, 21:56.
                    "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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                    • , had the right to abuse ordinary Wehrmacht soldiers because of what was happening on the home front.

                      Or in France (spit), Russia, Yugoslavia, Greece etc...
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • What the debate for anyway, we signed the Geneva convention. That's it, end of story, and in my opinion, the end of discussion on whether we had a right to torture captured enemy soldiers for the fun of it.

                        Anyways we largely treated captured Wehrmacht soldiers decently, as in fact they did ours (English and American). Forget the term "Wehrmacht soldiers and start getting used to the term "POW" -- it's more applicable.

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                        • I agree that the Germans sent to camps in the US and Canada were very well treated, given the circumstances. Many returned to North America to take up residence after being released. The Germans treated our guys relatively well too, considering the fact that they could barely keep themselves supplied as well as the Allied POW's they had in their camps.

                          Both sides, however, were guilty of the mistreatment of POW's, either at the front or behind the lines. The Germans had the infamous "Malmedy Massacre" on their hands, as well as other attacks on nonmilitary targets such as Oradour-Sur-Glan. The Americans shot an incalculable number of surrendering Germans after the incident at the Baugnez crossing (many unit commanders issuing the orders to take no prisoners), and razed countless German cities with little or no military significance to the ground (Caen comes to mind, as the (French) city was completely destroyed, despite the fact that initially there were no German units stationed in the city).

                          So both sides are guilty of these acts. Such as what happens in war. Hopefully the scale of the slaughter will never be repeated.
                          Last edited by leib10; 13 Oct 06,, 00:14.
                          "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by leibstandarte10 View Post
                            So both sides are guilty of these acts. Such as what happens in war. Hopefully the scale of the slaughter will never be repeated.
                            I pray for that too.

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                            • Originally posted by leibstandarte10 View Post
                              So both sides are guilty of these acts. Such as what happens in war.
                              Which is why the people who START the war bear the burden of responsibility.

                              -dale

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                              • Originally posted by dalem View Post
                                Which is why the people who START the war bear the burden of responsibility.

                                -dale
                                Germany has and does bear that responsibility, and it does so to the satisfaction of the vast majority of the world -- including Israel, of which Germany happens to be Israels best ally in Europe.

                                But I'm wondering how this responsibility applies to German POWs? should we have killed them upon capturing them? Just trying to get clarification.

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