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  • Lincoln asked Britain to help set up colony for freed slaves

    AR Sir, I came across this article this morning, thought you maybe interested in it.
    Another aspect of the civil war I was unaware of, sure you are though. Anyway I found it interesting.

    Lincoln asked Britain to help set up colony for freed slaves - This Britain, UK - The Independent
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    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  • #2
    The recent info on Lincoln is not really new per se.What's new is the fact that it gets more media attention.

    It has to be somehow about Obama

    That being said,perhaps Lincoln had the right idea at the time.A lot of suffering and internal troubles would have been probably avoided.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      The recent info on Lincoln is not really new per se.What's new is the fact that it gets more media attention.

      It has to be somehow about Obama

      That being said,perhaps Lincoln had the right idea at the time.A lot of suffering and internal troubles would have been probably avoided.

      The recent info on Lincoln is not really new per se.What's new is the fact that it gets more media attention.
      Oh for sure Mihais, just the Civil war has never been any part of my serious reading untill the last few years, still not my main topic of interest but I do find it fascinating now, which I never did in my younger years.

      That being said,perhaps Lincoln had the right idea at the time.A lot of suffering and internal troubles would have been probably avoided
      You know, we had a modern day politician who made some similar type comments back in the 60's..... he was shot down by others without the same vision and courage to face the future.

      It has to be somehow about Obama
      He is under a bit of pressure aint he, poor chap.
      ...
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      Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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      • #4
        mihais,

        That being said,perhaps Lincoln had the right idea at the time.A lot of suffering and internal troubles would have been probably avoided.
        i doubt it. colonization was never appealing to blacks even when oppressive slave states were around. doubly so after they became citizens.
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • #5
          Liberia.

          Although it wasn't a British colony.

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          • #6
            Thanks, RSM!

            As has been said in the article and by others, Lincoln's views on colonization are pretty well known amongst serious students of the ACW. Its only as we approach the 150th Anniversary that the greater public is "discovering" this "new" information!

            It was well known as far back in 1991..when I wrote a paper in grad school on this very subject! I remember getting into some pretty cool archival material back then during the research phase that semester.

            It is actually fairly well known that Lincoln was a member of a colonization society for quite some time prior to the entering the White House. While not a full blown abolitionist he was fully committed to the slave population returning from where their ancestors were brpought from. He believed it was a in the best interests of the US to end slavery. He was also not opposed to compensated emancipation.

            So while some may see this as some sign of a weakness or shortcoming on Lincoln's part I actually see it as a further proof of Lincoln's greatness....here was a man who saw what he believed was the greatest evil in American society and grappled with the problem as a man. He looked at every possible way to come to a solution. So what we see is a man rising to the occasion.

            So once again, thanks for the article. I enjoyed it and I am glad that some light is being shined into some unknown aspects of the ACW. Most people are usually only aware of the UK - US relationship vis-a-vis the Trent Affair. They are not aware of the yeoman's effort put in by the State Department in Europe during the war. Most people are going to see a lot of great information coming to light in popular history as we move into the 150th Anniversary.

            I am sure I will be busy along with others in these spaces in the coming years!
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

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            • #7
              Albany Rifles - response

              It was well known as far back in 1991..when I wrote a paper in grad school on this very subject! I remember getting into some pretty cool archival material back then during the research phase that semester
              You are very welcome Sir, I must admit the ACW is slowly creeping more and more into my reading habits.
              If you still have a copy of that paper you wrote in 1991! I would enjoy reading it if you would not mind?
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              Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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              • #8
                Thanks Tigger...

                The negro Lincoln most admired and respected was Frederick Douglass, a former slave who escaped and settled in New Bedford, Massachusetts, in 1838, and became a quite prominent abolitionist. He spent time in England on the lam. Two years after he returned he published a scathing rebuttal to the argument gaining favor at the time that the only sensible post-emancipation course was to return American negroes to Africa. Of course, emancipation was still a distant goal.

                He wrote his rebuttal 11 years before the Civil War began. The date offers some perspective as to how Lincoln already favored the idea when he became president in 1861. Later in the war, Lincoln met with Douglass several times at the White House. They talked about emancipation. But whether they ever discussed colonization, I don't know. Albany may be able to shed some light on that.



                COLONIZATION
                by Frederick Douglas

                Published in The North Star Rochester: 26 January 1849

                In order to divert the hounds from the pursuit of the fox, a "red herring" is sometimes drawn across the trail, and the hounds mistaking it for the real scent, the game is often lost. We look upon the recent debate in the Senate of the United States, over this wrinkled old "red herring" of colonization as a ruse to divert the attention of the people from the foul abomination which is sought to be forced upon the free soil of California and New Mexico, and which is now struggling for existence in Kentucky, Virginia and the District of Columbia. The slaveholders are evidently at a stand to know what trick they shall try next to turn the scorching rays of anti-slavery light and truth from the bloodshot eyes of the monster slavery. The discussion of it is most painful and agonizing; and if it continues, the very life of this foul, unnatural and adulterous beast will be put in imminent peril; so the slaveholding charmers have conjured up their old familiar spirits of colonization, making the old essence of abomination to flounder about in its grave clothes before the eyes of Northern men, to their utter confusion and bewilderment. A drowning man will catch at a straw. Slavery is sinking in public estimation. It is going down. It wants help, and asks through Mr. Underwood, of Kentucky, how much of the public money (made by the honest toil of Northern men) will be at its service in the event of emancipation, "as some are in favor of emancipation, provided that the Negroes can be sent to Liberia, or beyond the limits of the United States."

                Here we have the old colonization spirit revived, and the impudent proposition entertained by the Senate of the United States of expelling the free colored people from the United States, their native land, to Liberia.

                In view of this proposition, we would respectfully suggest to the assembled wisdom of the nation, that it might be well to ascertain the number of free colored people who will be likely to need the assistance of government to help them out of this country to Liberia, or elsewhere, beyond the limits of these United States--since this course might save any embarrassment which would result from an appropriation more than commensurate to the numbers who might be disposed to leave this, our own country, for one we know not of. We are of the opinion that the free colored people generally mean to live in America, and not in Africa; and to appropriate a large sum for our removal, would merely be a waste of the public money. We do not mean to go to Liberia. Our minds are made up to live here if we can, or die here if we must; so every attempt to remove us will be, as it ought to be, labor lost. Here we are, and here we shall remain. While our brethren are in bondage on these shores, it is idle to think of inducing any considerable number of the free colored people to quit this for a foreign land.

                For two hundred and twenty-eight years has the colored man toiled over the soil of America, under a burning sun and a driver's lash--plowing, planting, reaping, that white men might roll in ease, their hands unhardened by labor, and their brows unmoistened by the waters of genial toil; and now that the moral sense of mankind is beginning to revolt at this system of foul treachery and cruel wrong, and is demanding its overthrow, the mean and cowardly oppressor is meditating plans to expel the colored man entirely from the country. Shame upon the guilty wretches that dare propose, and all that countenance such a proposition. We live here--have lived here--have a right to live here, and mean to live here.--F.D.
                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                • #9
                  Impressive man Douglass, and correct into the bargain. Having kidnapped, killed, enslaved & profitted from negroes the idea of simpy dumping them en masse back on the shores of Africa was nothing more or less than a collective evasion of responsibility for the sin of slavery. As they say in the shop, you broke it you bought it.
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                  • #10
                    Jad - response

                    Amazing read, thanks Jad.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
                      You are very welcome Sir, I must admit the ACW is slowly creeping more and more into my reading habits.
                      If you still have a copy of that paper you wrote in 1991! I would enjoy reading it if you would not mind?

                      Only if anyone knows how to convert a Wordstar document on 5 1/4 inch floppy to Office 2007!

                      Unfortunately, I did a lot of my work in grad school on a variety of platforms...settled on the early Mac.

                      Most of my grad school work as well as Mrs. AR's work in her nursing grad program got trashed trying to move to newer platforms.

                      I have electrons for my thesis and a bound copy of my thesis but that is about it.

                      And I have to say, if the scholarship which came to light over the past 15 years was available when I was writing my thesis I may have come to some different conclusions.

                      As to the subject here is the Wikipedia page which covers it fairly well.


                      American Colonization Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      I recall some of those titles in the sources section from my research. Also, since I went to an historically black university for my MA they had some access to primary sources on the subject matter.
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • #12
                        Lincoln, Douglass & Colonization

                        The following is an excerpt from from David W. Blight's , Frederick Douglass’ Civil War: Keeping Faith in Jubilee
                        Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass - Abraham Lincoln's Classroom



                        Blight wrote: “To the extent that their goal was the improvement of the lot of black people, Douglass occasionally acknowledged the good intentions of colonizationists, yet whatever benevolent features colonization represented could not mask what he saw as the central problem – racial prejudice.” Blight wrote that “Douglass believed that the colonization debate ultimately served the ends of white supremacy: to postpone emancipation and to deny blacks any claim to American nationality. He simply did not consider credible the belief held by some colonizations that their plans would hasten emancipation by making it safe.” According to Blight, “Douglass knew that the colonizationist threat rested on certain assumptions: that white prejudice was unconquerable; that blacks naturally gravitated toward tropical climates and, indeed might become extinct if they did not; that color was a natural barrier to racial intermarriage; that race determined physical and intellectual aptitude; and that the ‘character’ of the black and white races had determined that they must separate. To Douglass, the debate over colonization was a struggle to refute this scheme of racial determinism.”22

                        Douglass biographer Blight wrote: “In September, 1862, through Postmaster General Montgomery Blair, the Lincoln administration tried officially to enlist Frederick Douglass’ aid in its colonization scheme. Douglass had written a letter of protest to Senator Pomeroy, and Blair sought to demonstrate the black editor’s ‘misapprehension’ of the enterprise. Blair assured Douglass that there was ‘no question of superiority or inferiority involved in the proposed removal.’ He invoked the reputation of Thomas Jefferson to underscore the idea of racial separation. The minority race, argued Blair, must go elsewhere to imitate the civilization established by the majority race; the propriety of colonization stemmed from ‘the differences between them..., and it seems as obvious to me as it was to...the mind of Jefferson that the opinion against which you protest, is the necessary result of indelible differences thus made by the Almighty.’”23

                        President Lincoln’s draft Emancipation Proclamation in September 1862 thrilled Douglass. Historian James Oakes wrote: “Frederick Douglass was beside himself. ‘Abraham Lincoln,’ he exclaimed, ‘in his own peculiar, cautious, forbearing and hesitating way, slow, but we hope sure, has, while the loyal heart was near breaking with despair, proclaimed and declared’ that as of the following January 1 the slaves in the rebellious South ‘Shall be Thenceforward and Forever Free.’ Emancipation once proclaimed was irreversible, Douglass argued. ‘Abraham Lincoln may be slow, Abraham Lincoln may desire peace, but Abraham Lincoln is not the man to reconsider, retract and contradict words and purposes solemnly proclaimed over his official signature.’”24 Douglass was further energized by the issuance of the final Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. He was in Boston at a rally awaiting word when word came: “It is comin! It is on the wires! A black preacher led the audience in singing “Sound the loud trimbrel o’er Egypt’s dark sea, Jehovah hath triumphed, his people are free.”25

                        Historian Stephen B. Oates wrote: “The flood of antislavery legislation delighted Frederick Douglass. ‘I trust I am not dreaming,’ he wrote Sumner, ‘but the events taking place seem like a dream.’ But he was grievously disappointed in Lincoln’s colonization moves, which he did not fully understand. Hurt and perplexed by them, Douglass damned the President for ‘his pride of race and blood, his contempt for Negroes and his canting hypocrisy.’ And he warned that the Union cause ‘would never prosper till the war assumed an anti-slavery attitude, and the Negro was enlisted on the loyal side.’”26
                        As you can see Douglass was an ardent foe of colonization. And it would appear that the 2 men never spoke of it face to face. Lincoln chose to use Blair as a go between so he could distance himself.

                        I certainly never across anything to the contrary in my research 20 years ago...but then I wasn't looking at that.

                        I believe Lincoln was looking to the time he would need Douglass' support in enlisting black soldiers.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

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                        • #13
                          AR - response

                          Only if anyone knows how to convert a Wordstar document on 5 1/4 inch floppy to Office 2007!


                          No worries Sir, thanks for the link......... give me a month or two and I may have a couple of questions for you
                          Last edited by T_igger_cs_30; 11 Mar 11,, 19:56.
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                          Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                            Impressive man Douglass, and correct into the bargain. Having kidnapped, killed, enslaved & profitted from negroes the idea of simpy dumping them en masse back on the shores of Africa was nothing more or less than a collective evasion of responsibility for the sin of slavery. As they say in the shop, you broke it you bought it.
                            Different time. Different perspective. Slavery began when manpower was in short supply and grew to become an indispenible factor in the southern economy, none of which makes it right. When it began, exploitation of primitive people was not considered so abhorrent as it is now. Again, that doesn't make it right. Once politicians in the 19h century realized slavery was doomed in the US, they faced the prospect of assimilating millions of illiterate, formerly dependent blacks into white society. Abolitionists, like liberals in all times, glossed over the problem. Objective thinkers grappled with the real questions: what disruption would several million former slaves entering the paid work force cause; how would white society accept blacks that have been regarded even by fair-minded whites as an inferior race; how will political institutions fare with large numbers or black voters added to the rolls. The idea of colonization sidestepped all these problems; it made perfect sense, if not pratical sense. Douglass laid down the challenge: whites created the problem and they would have to fix it, and we've been doing it ever since a little at a time. The election of a black president is a kind of culmination of the process for both whites and blacks. There is a way to go yet in the economic and social spheres. I expect progress to continue until the NAACP and other black organizations are no longer relevant.
                            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              And it would appear that the 2 men never spoke of it face to face. Lincoln chose to use Blair as a go between so he could distance himself.

                              I certainly never across anything to the contrary in my research 20 years ago...but then I wasn't looking at that.

                              I believe Lincoln was looking to the time he would need Douglass' support in enlisting black soldiers.
                              You are far more well read on the subject than I. Is it true that Lincoln met alone at least once with Douglass, or alone with just one of his personal secretaries present, Hay or Nickolay? If memory serves, one of them wrote extensively about Lincoln's time in office. I wonder if they wrote of the meetings.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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