Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Colonels leading German divisions in the Battle of the Bulge.

  1. #1
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Apr 06
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,824

    Colonels leading German divisions in the Battle of the Bulge.

    Why were so many division commanders in the Wehrmacht colonels in Dec. 1944? The commander for the 5th Parachute, the 2d Panzer, and almost all of the Volksgrenadier Divisions were colonels. It made no sense. Were the Germans short of general officers? Would this not lead to problems in command relationships?
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  2. #2
    Senior Contributor 1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Jul 09
    Location
    România
    Posts
    1,684
    Oberst was the nest rank after major general so when the commander of the division was replaced, the officer commanding one of the regiments was the obvious choice.
    not certain about the VG divisions.
    J'ai en marre.

  3. #3
    Senior Contributor 1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Jul 09
    Location
    România
    Posts
    1,684
    Oberst was the nest rank after major general so when the commander of the division was replaced, the officer commanding one of the regiments was the obvious choice.
    not certain about the VG divisions.
    J'ai en marre.

  4. #4
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    05 Sep 06
    Posts
    2,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    Why were so many division commanders in the Wehrmacht colonels in Dec. 1944? The commander for the 5th Parachute, the 2d Panzer, and almost all of the Volksgrenadier Divisions were colonels
    In December?

    2. PzDiv was commanded by Major General Schönfeld until just before the battle. He "voluntarily retired" from his post one day before of the battle, with one of the colonels under him taking over, four months later being promoted to major general himself.
    5. FsJgDiv was commanded by Major General Heilmann.

    The VG-Div were SS. And mostly commanded by Major Generals too. A few only by two-star Lieutenant Generals. Some were commanded by colonels, e.g. the 462nd for four weeks (Nov-Dec 44) between its general being captured and the division being destroyed.
    Last edited by kato; 15 May 12, at 10:13.

  5. #5
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Apr 06
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,824
    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    In December?

    2. PzDiv was commanded by Major General Schönfeld until just before the battle. He "voluntarily retired" from his post one day before of the battle, with one of the colonels under him taking over, four months later being promoted to major general himself.
    5. FsJgDiv was commanded by Major General Heilmann.

    The VG-Div were SS. And mostly commanded by Major Generals too. A few only by two-star Lieutenant Generals. Some were commanded by colonels, e.g. the 462nd for four weeks (Nov-Dec 44) between its general being captured and the division being destroyed.
    Not according to the Battle of the Bulge's Order of Battle in Wikipedia or Charles MacDonald's a Time for Trumpets. The rank of Heilmann is listed as Colonel by both sources. For the Volksgrenadiers Divisions, I am seeing a lot more colonels than major generals. A rough count: In the Fifth Panzer Army five out of six VGDs had colonels as commanding officers. In the Sixth Panzer Army, two out of four, and in the Seventh three out of five.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  6. #6
    Senior Contributor 1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Jul 09
    Location
    România
    Posts
    1,684
    5th Pz-Army
    2 of them were promoted in dec 44, another 2 in jan 1945.
    J'ai en marre.

  7. #7
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    05 Sep 06
    Posts
    2,076
    In most cases the VG-Divs used in the Ardennes Offensive were rather quickly formed from either halfway destroyed divisions or from Navy or Air Force personnel - between September and November '44. The colonels leading them (not commanding them, there's a difference!) were either commanders of those regiments absorbed into the new units that remained intact (i.e. the "core units" of the new divisions) or were assigned leadership of a "strange" unit (for the units with LW/KM personnel) with previous experience usually being general-staff-level commanders of army schools. The latter is the case e.g. with the 560th, 167th, 26th or 18th VGDiv.

    Ludwig Heilmann was assigned leadership (not command!) of the 5th FsJgDiv on November 17th 1944 and was promoted to Major General and assigned command of the division on December 22nd 1944, immediately before committing the unit to combat. The unit got stuck in its first major combat at Martelange two days later, and was subsequently moved back into a defensive position.
    Last edited by kato; 15 May 12, at 20:47.

  8. #8
    Senior Contributor clackers's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Nov 07
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    810
    Certainly a measure of how the Heer had really fallen apart by this time.

    Few of the 1st SS Panzer Division's replacement crews for the Battle of the Bulge had ever previously been in a tank, and there was only one live firing exercise (in November) before the offensive started.

    The Luftwaffe was similarly depleted, and for its Operation Bodenplatte on New Year's Day in 1945 many pilots lacked navigational skills and had to follow flight leaders to the targets.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. bye bye armored divisions.
    By xinhui in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 21 Jan 12,, 00:23
  2. Divisions
    By lordangers in forum The World Wars
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 21 Sep 08,, 19:18
  3. Internal divisions in Israel
    By Ray in forum The Middle East and North Africa
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10 Oct 05,, 06:47
  4. "Bush's bulge stirs media rumours"
    By Chris in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 13 Oct 04,, 19:46
  5. US Army Divisions
    By BUFF in forum Europe and Russia
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12 Aug 03,, 04:11

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •