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Thread: Purges

  1. #1
    Senior Contributor 1979's Avatar
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    Purges

    I'm currently reading V. Suvorov book : Очищение ( Purges )
    I have read only 4 chapters so far (out of 23 ) but already it looks like a interesting read .
    The author raises the question :
    Why did Stalin beheaded his army in 1937-1938 ?

    Your input please...

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    I liked it more than the others(perhaps because I disagreed with some of his points,like reaching Ploiesti in 3hrs ).I also doubt that Stalin was doing a big service to the motherland by promoting the likes of Mekhlis and Beria while killing Ejov or Blucher.But if the point about the number of politrucs and blue eyed boys that ended dead compared to veritable military officers turns to be true, it's something that will indeed change a chapter in WW2 historiography.

    p.s Me being a mere simpleton I also like his style.Funny reading while traveling with our super-fast trains.
    Last edited by Mihais; 14 Jan 10, at 21:08.
    Those who know don't speak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    I liked it more than the others(perhaps because I disagreed with some of his points,like reaching Ploiesti in 3hrs ).I also doubt that Stalin was doing a big service to the motherland by promoting the likes of Mekhlis and Beria while killing Ejov or Blucher.But if the point about the number of politrucs and blue eyed boys that ended dead compared to veritable military officers turns to be true, it's something that will indeed change a chapter in WW2 historiography.

    p.s Me being a mere simpleton I also like his style.Funny reading while traveling with our super-fast trains.
    I fail to see any significant difference between Ejov and Beria ,Mihais.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Suvorov says somewhere in the book that Stalin replaced the murderous scumbags that repressed the people,with new faces,more likely to be accepted and followed by the masses.Especially during wartime.My point in that matter coincides with your point on the matter.

    p.s Perhaps Ejov wasn't a rapist,so maybe there is a difference afterall.
    Those who know don't speak
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    I'm only at chapter 5 so i don't have a definitive image in mind regarding the entire book but i have read other material and i have a general opinion regarding this issue.
    Also a lot of doubts , here is one:
    Konstantin Rokossovsky , marshal of the Soviet Union, had bean accused of espionage and: " After interrogations that included torture resulting in nine missing teeth, three cracked ribs, the removal of his fingernails, and three mock shooting ceremonies, he was sent to the Kresty Prison in Leningrad, where he remained until March 1940"

    Things could had turned different for K.K. and the Red army could have lost one brilliant commander. (not necessary a bad thing from our point of view,,, )

  6. #6
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Generally speaking,Suvorov has some bright ideas,but tends to surround them with a mountain of crap.He's either truly independent and needs some $$,so a bit of exageration,a slight omission here and there serves his account well.Or he's not truly independent,so he does what his kind does best.Afterall,these guys learn about disinformation by the time they learn how to drink.But the gems deserve the digging.
    On a side note,good ole me had the pleasure of attending a lecture a month ago by Army General(ret.) M.A Gareev and MG(ret) A.M Zolotarov,from the Historical Dept. of our brotherly army.When it came to answer(after the meeting,on the hallway) about the RKKA deployments in Bessarabia before June '41 as well as about the border incidents,the (ex)comrades said-''OIL".
    q.e.d
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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    I remembered about Pavel Dybenko.The hero that could not speak ''Americanish".What an a.....le was Stalin,to kill such a lad.Strictly from our pov.

    Boy,what a laugh I had.
    Those who know don't speak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Suvorov says somewhere in the book that Stalin replaced the murderous scumbags that repressed the people,with new faces,more likely to be accepted and followed by the masses.Especially during wartime.My point in that matter coincides with your point on the matter.

    p.s Perhaps Ejov wasn't a rapist,so maybe there is a difference afterall.
    What men like the Paedophile and murderer Beria.

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    The whole Soviet regime was pure evil.

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    Shakespeare
    must be really proud...
    J'ai en marre.

  11. #11
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Hey,I like the spirit.
    Those who know don't speak
    Fools seem to be artificially made,'cause there's a hell lot of them and they have no disease

  12. #12
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    army commanders

    The USSR had enter in ww2 with 28 field army's ;

    1 army - Vasiliev
    2 army - Teryokhin
    3 army- Kuznetzov
    4 army- Korobkov
    5 army - Potatov
    6 army - Muzicenko
    7 army - Gorelenko
    8 army - Ivanov
    9 army - Cherevicenko
    11 army -Morozov
    12 army- Ponedelin
    13 army- Filatov
    14army - Frolov
    15 army- ??? (far east)
    16 army- Lukin
    17 army -??? (Transbaikal)
    18 army -Smirnow
    19 army -Konev
    20 army-Remezov
    21 army -Gerasimenko
    22 army -Ershakov
    23 army- Pshennikov
    24 army- Kalinin
    25 army-Parusinov
    26 army- Kostenko
    27 army-Berzarin
    28 army-Kacealov


    The post of army commander in the Red Army is not a small thing, the commander has at his disposal typically 2 rifle corps and one mechanized corps , at all over 120.000 men. The prospects for promotion are big , Konev for instance rose to the rank of marshal.
    Now, how about the others ?
    Not so lucky I'm afraid...:P
    Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10, at 17:45.
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  13. #13
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    Well maybe Konev was lucky , after all , not all army commanders have what it takes to be a marshall of URSS ( like Beria, Brezhnev, Chuikov, Tukhachevsky or Vorosilov )
    But maybe the position of Front commander was in they're grasp...
    No.
    To be fair , 9th army commander Cherevicenko commanded the Breansk and south front before the start of Case blau.
    Keeping the command that was given to them also was difficult task to achieve for most of them.
    Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10, at 18:19.
    J'ai en marre.

  14. #14
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Yep,but division commanders like Malinovski,or corp commanders like our beloved Konstantin Konstantinovici rose quite fast.Many were staff officers like Vasilevsky or Bagramean also went up fast.Many of the army CO were captured or killed in '41 so unlucky chaps indeed.
    Those who know don't speak
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Yep,but division commanders like Malinovski,or corp commanders like our beloved Konstantin Konstantinovici rose quite fast.Many were staff officers like Vasilevsky or Bagramean also went up fast.Many of the army CO were captured or killed in '41 so unlucky chaps indeed.
    Look at the biography of the army commanders that held they're position in 1941.
    They served either on the karelian front, basarabia, Mongolia, etc...
    or they're command was wiped out and for one reason or another they were given command of a new soviet army.
    If indeed competent commander could only be found at corps or division level than maybe , just maybe , Stalin purges did not cut as deep as they should have.
    Last edited by 1979; 20 Jan 10, at 19:33.
    J'ai en marre.

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