If Stauffenberg had killed Hitler on July 20th 1944

**1979** · 20 Sep 11,, 16:24

the ratio 1 killed to 3 wounded in combat holds true for the axis minors considering the whole war not independent operations.

one thing that stands out is that even as devastating as it was, the battle of STALINGRAD only amounts to a small percentage of the total casualties suffered by the axis minors throughout the war.

another thing that gets overlooked is the fact that soviets took prisoners of war even after armed hostilities has ceased . for instance after 23 aug 1944 Romanian troops no longer fired on the soviets and were at a shooting war with German troops on our soil , the red army kept taking romanian pow well into September when the armistice was put in paper.

**clackers** · 21 Sep 11,, 11:51

For what it's worth, Colonel General Grigori Krivosheyev thought that 350,000 Hungarians died and a further 513,700 were captured, of whom 54,700 died in Soviet captivity.

He estimated that 480,000 Rumanian soldiers died, with a further 201,800 captured (and 40,000 dying in Soviet camps).

**Doktor** · 21 Sep 11,, 11:54

Originally Posted by 1979

another thing that gets overlooked is the fact that soviets took prisoners of war even after armed hostilities has ceased . for instance after 23 aug 1944 Romanian troops no longer fired on the soviets and were at a shooting war with German troops on our soil , the red army kept taking romanian pow well into September when the armistice was put in paper.

Well, Romanians were shooting towards Soviets first, now towards Nazis... If they are POW they can't switch sides again huh?

**1979** · 21 Sep 11,, 13:28

we conscripted 1.2 mil soldiers during the war (>7% percent of our population at the end of 1941 including territories liberated from USSR)

480.000 is probably casualties not dead, otherwise we would have more wounded than conscripts ( 480*3= 1.44 millions )

even with a ratio of 1 wounded to 1 killed it does not hold water.

Hungary had a population of about 12 millions after the second Vienna award so in order to sustain 350,000 dead and 513,700 captured they have to mobilize also 7% while leaving no room for wounded.

krivoshev figures regarding the axis simply do not add up.

Edit : finally managed to dig up a Hungarian document in English
despite growing up near the border with them , the hungarian language is not my strong point.

http://www.epa.hu/00400/00463/00007/pdf/155_stark.pdf

**1979** · 21 Sep 11,, 13:59

Originally Posted by Doktor

Well, Romanians were shooting towards Soviets first, now towards Nazis... If they are POW they can't switch sides again huh?

seams like something along the lines of Stalin"s thinking.

**clackers** · 22 Sep 11,, 06:11

Originally Posted by 1979

http://www.epa.hu/00400/00463/00007/pdf/155_stark.pdf

Thanks for the link, 1979!

For various reasons, it's almost impossible to get a true picture of Eastern Front casualties, and Krivosheyev unfortunately can only be considered as the best of a bad bunch ...