Thread: Why do Aussies and Kiwis hold grudges about Douglas MacArthur?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

He was trolling to the point of insulting both our allied veterans (on both sides of the Pacific) and flamebaiting.

As much as I don't like both Montgomery and MacArthur, I will never insult the men who served under them and admired them. RAAFbloke has tantamount to calling them cannon fodder.

What else would you call thousands of people who were seen to be expendable in the pursuit of self-aggrandisement?

Why would you think people who served under such a person worthy of respect, merely because they were stupid enough to follow and admire their so-called superiors? Does any requirement for individual assessment of military leaders go out the window when you take the oath? Automatons rule.

Is this what America has almost incessantly fought for during the past sixty years - the silencing of opinion with which you disagree? What has it all been for? I'm very disappointed in you, but not surprised. Your namecalling in reference to what was written by RAAFBLOKE is beneath your dignity as a moderator. How did you get the job? Don't tell me, you volunteered.

Originally Posted by S-2

Bill,

You've come on too strong for my tastes with respect to awards. In our military, they pass through a fairly rigorous verification and endorsement process. Lying for awards isn't unheard of, to be sure, but a high-visibility award like the DSC or silver star- awarded multiple times to a high visibility personage- puts paid to the notion that he was a coward.

Then why did the Republicans who supported two people who never served in combat attack John Kerry for faking his medals? After all, as you said in the bold text, the recipients undergo a fairly rigorous verification and endorsement process.

Because it is "fairly" rigorous, there always remains room for question depending on the individual and the nature of the award. Multiple awards for the DSC and silver star provide multiple opportunities to affirm MacArthur's personal courage.

It's undisputed by history unless you wish to make a case otherwise.

"Then why did the Republicans who supported two people who never served in combat attack John Kerry for faking his medals?"

THIS republican wasn't quoted on this board as doing so- anywhere. What's the relevancy to MacArthur? Do you question his two DSCs, seven silver stars, and multiple purple hearts?

That's the issue. Nothing else. If so, make your case, please?

Just to calrify something here.

I am no fan of Douglas MacArthur. I don't even think he was the best general in his won theater. That said, there is no doubting his personnal bravery, particulalry during the Pancho Villa Expedition and World War 1. As a brigade commander he led all attacks of his 84th Infantry Brigade from the front. He was wounded once and gassed once (2 Purple Heart Awards). He was awarded 2 Distinguished Service Crosses and 7 Silver Stars (2 of which were for actions in Mexico)

He was no coward as far as battlefield actions are concerned.

I believe he was the man for the time in the SW Pacific.

As for the assertion he was followed by men who were little more than sheep...well, it is a pitiful person who would denigrate the service of hundreds of thousands of Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Aviators of all countries who fought in the SW Pacific and Korea.

Wading through the burocratese is a slog. I think this plan was leaked and published in the Chicago Trib...1940...by American fascist sympathizers. Hilter had his admirers in the US.

RAINBOW-5

While OoE has already punched this guy's ticket, I do feel a response is in order

Originally Posted by rugmop

Your namecalling in reference to what was written by RAAFBLOKE is beneath your dignity as a moderator. How did you get the job? Don't tell me, you volunteered.

No, he did not volunteer. He got the job by being dragged into into it by the request of the entire staff of the WAB.

He's also been one of the finest moderators - a thankless task if there ever was one - that we've ever had.

Any other questions about things that are none of your damn business?

Originally Posted by TopHatter

While OoE has already punched this guy's ticket, I do feel a response is in order



No, he did not volunteer. He got the job by being dragged into into it by the request of the entire staff of the WAB.

He's also been one of the finest moderators - a thankless task if there ever was one - that we've ever had.

Any other questions about things that are none of your damn business?

*scratches his head* can banned people see the board, or did you miss the fact he was already nuked? Or general message to other wise guys?

Originally Posted by zraver

*scratches his head* can banned people see the board, or did you miss the fact he was already nuked? Or general message to other wise guys?

Yes they can, no I did not and you hit the nail on the head.

Public criticism of a moderator - being a violation of the form rules - is usually a good way to get punted.

If you have something to say to moderator, send them a PM.

I for one am more than happy to receive criticism from all comers (One of them was subsequently made a moderator in fact...mostly out of revenge* )), just do it via PM.


*That was a joke by the way

Originally Posted by TopHatter

I for one am more than happy to receive criticism from all comers (One of them was subsequently made a moderator in fact...mostly out of revenge* )), just do it via PM.


*That was a joke by the way

Errrrr......can I just rescind that last PM I just sent TH????Please???

Originally Posted by Albert1981

I admit I am a Douglas MacArthur partisan. I have been a fan of his for years, and have read a great deal about this fascinating individual. I find it tremendously amusing that the Australians and New Zealanders are still peeved about MacArthur for making comments that did not flatter them.

Among these was MacArthur’s scathing remarks about the poor fighting ability of the ANZAC troops, his statements about the quality of Australian food Americans had to eat, and his demeaning remarks about the crudeness of Australian women folk. And the General voiced his opinion of Australia’s lackadaisical attitude toward the war in general.

ANZACs also continue to harp on the fact that they were the first force in the Pacific campaign in World War II to defeat a Japanese land invasion. They still get mad because MacArthur called ANZAC victories as "Allied victories" as opposed to Australian and New Zealander victories. Is that not being a little petty and small?

You've answered your own question I think. Would this not piss you off?

He also took credit that was not his to take, again if it was your father that was doing the fighting and he told you stories about getting no recognition for doing the hard yards you would grow up with the attitude that he was an ******* too.

Originally Posted by Albert1981

You are quite right. Mac never said the Australians were cowards, but that their performance was not up to snuff. I guess Mac had standards of bravery that he himself lived up to in the Philippines at the start of the 20th century, in the Vera Cruz Expedition and in the Great War.

He did run away didn't he? Seems he was not as brave as the ones he left behind now was he....

"He did run away didn't he? Seems he was not as brave as the ones he left behind now was he...."

By order of the President of the United States, IIRC.

Originally Posted by clackers

I would have thought you could throw Leningrad into that list too, S-2, but the source is Spector on p524 ... I've seen it said in another book too ... I've no idea what their definitions are!

Curiosity made me check this out ... Gerhard Weinberg in A World At Arms says Manila was the most damaged Allied 'capital' other than Warsaw ... this does seems more likely than Spector's statement ...

Originally Posted by S-2

"He did run away didn't he? Seems he was not as brave as the ones he left behind now was he...."

By order of the President of the United States, IIRC.

MacArthur had decided to share the fate of his troops, Expat Canuck ... one third didn't survive the war ... but Marshall ordered him out:

The American Experience | MacArthur | Enhanced Transcript Part I

Originally Posted by S-2

"He did run away didn't he? Seems he was not as brave as the ones he left behind now was he...."

By order of the President of the United States, IIRC.

MacArthur does have a habit of choosing which orders to obey.