neyzen

1) Turkey was/is not your homeland.
2) Armenians were not slaughtered by Ottoman Army. Genocide discusses are on causalities of relocation and relocation's purpose. Before all you must prove genocide but you haven't yet, even you don't try to prove. Your Tamer Akcam language is only demagogic and it serves nothing.
3) Ottoman Empire was not colonial empire. You have no idea how Turks slaughtered (they didn't die, they were killed brutally) At least you don't care.
4) Azeris are slaughtered in Karabagh in their homeland and rest of the world don't care about it. BTW, it is new issue. Why?

Kansas Bear

Sounds like you're blaming the whole Nation.

Your words;
Which makes you a hypocrite.

Wrong again.
He works for the Hamburg Institute for Social Research.

Wow. University of Minnesota.... Talk about weak.... LMAO

I guess Fatma Müge Göçek is a terrorist as well....

Compared to a doctored Russian document or Ottoman archives which have been sanitized. As I stated earlier...


So you label someone, without evidence as usual, then try to enlist help from someone you notice doesn't like communists, since you can't argue a point of fact on your own. How pathetic.... LMAO

This is called a "Red Herring" by the way. Another pathetically weak argument practice of yours.

Stick to making sockpuppets burak. That's the only thing you CAN do. LMAO

Sounds like Hrant Dink, except he's dead.

What about Orhan Pamuk?



True. Look at the actions of the Ottoman empire vs it's minorities during WWI!!

More talk, no proof.

And you trust sanitized Ottoman records, and a forged Russian document.

Since you continue your whining about this.

1. You've stated that Taner Akcam is a fugitive.
2. You've stated that Taner Akcam is a terrorist.
3. Then why didn't the Turkish government arrest this fugitive terrorist when he returned to Turkey?

Yet again, logic has tripped up your pathetically weak argument.

Stated by another of Turkey's paid minions...*Lowry*

Odd how the Turkish government was caught bribing Dennis Hastert as well.

Are you slow? Germany of 1914-1918 is not the same as Germany of 1978.

Still changing the subject, since you can't argue the facts.

Strawman argument. Typical.

Kansas Bear

The same mentality used by the Young Turks to initiate this genocide. Thanks for the affirmation.
If the use of Taner Akcam's evidence is demagogic then your use of Ottoman records is UBER-demagogic.
More talk, no proof.
Strawman argument. Typical.

Kansas Bear

"There are, however, a few significant but often overlooked discrepancies. The first is between the reason given for the deportations and the places to which the Armenians were sent. Officially, the Armenians, who constituted a danger to the army, were distance from the war zone. In fact, they were deported from areas far removed from the war zone directly into the theater of operations, from inner Anatolia to the front where the Fourth and Sixth Armies were fighting the British. Furthermore, at no point during the deporatation--not at the start, nor on the road, nor at the final destinations--were any preparations made for the mass movement of people. This alone was enough to demostrate that the campaign's aim was deliberate extermination."

Parihaka

Kansas Bear, I have asked Big K to halt the personal attacks on this thread, I ask you do the same please.

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

neyzen

Kansas do you need any evidences for Jewish Genocide which done by Germans? Such as Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor..., orders, speeches...

I really don't care what one sided people say. Post the undeniable evidences... This is what I want...

Kansas Bear

And the differences between the Jewish Genocide and Armenian Genocide?
Not many. As in post #94, why move Armenians from inner Anatolia to the Middle Eastern Front?

Hasn't Big K proven that the Brits, muchless everyone in the world(according to him), were pro-Armenian? Yet again, another contradiction in your logic.


And yet, every time I read anything that says the Genocide didn't occur, it all traces back to either the Turkish government or the Ottoman Archives(which is run by the Turkish government). I wonder why that is.......

Feanor

Wait. Neyzen so you're saying there never was any genocide? Or that the genocide wasn't really genocide, but a guerilla resistance war? Or that the genocide is justified by the Armenian resistance? Or that the relocation of an entire population, with massive casualties, is not genocide? I'm just trying to clarify your point.

zraver

He doesn't really have a point he will skip form it didn't happen, to they deserved it, to it was a guerilla war, to the Turks suffered more (which is a lie).

This si what we know

Imperial Germany, the Ottoman Ally says it was a genocide.

American Missonary's said it happend, in fact the plight of the Armenians was considered so grave in WW1, that the US never delcared war on Turkey in order to kepe the relif effort going.

American life insurance polices and claims confirm many of the deaths

Photogaphic evidence confirms the brutality.

Continuing the policy of kicking non turks out of Anataollia, Turkey kicke dall the geeks out in the 1920's.

Kemal Attaturk, the father of Modern Turkey said it happend.

ad nuasuem....

neyzen

"Or that the relocation of an entire population, with massive casualties, is not genocide" This one is more similar to my view. Relocation of big part of population with massive causalities is not enough for genocide. According to genocide definition there must be an intend to kill whole Armenian nation. Relocation was Ottoman Empires state policy. It was not first relocation of them. Armenians were relocated by Byzantium before or Ottoman Turks relocated Turks many times in history. There were some laws for good working relocation. Armenians were able to use train where it was available (Hatay). Muslim bandits who attacked to civilians were judged and guilties were hanged (btw, armenian bandits who attacked to muslim civilians are still considered as a hero by Armenians). Turks in Anatolia or Ottoman Army were not living in prosperity. Thousands of soldiers died from serious illnesses... Ottoman empire could not hide all genocide evidences. There would be a second ww. Germans will commited genocide against jews. After a Nürnberg trails there would be a new concept which is genocide and Ottoman Turks would hide its evidences. Funny. (zraver Atatürk died in 1938) Killed Turkish civilians were not causalities of anything. They were killed by their hatred because they were Turkish. Two things are different. Which one corresponds genocide?

Kansas Bear

Typical party line response...


"There are, however, a few significant but often overlooked discrepancies. The first is between the reason given for the deportations and the places to which the Armenians were sent. Officially, the Armenians, who constituted a danger to the army, were distance from the war zone. In fact, they were deported from areas far removed from the war zone directly into the theater of operations, from inner Anatolia to the front where the Fourth and Sixth Armies were fighting the British. Furthermore, at no point during the deporatation--not at the start, nor on the road, nor at the final destinations--were any preparations made for the mass movement of people. This alone was enough to demostrate that the campaign's aim was deliberate extermination."


Ottoman actions speak louder than words......



Yet, they still try...

Attached Images

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Feanor

Well ok. If neyzen does not like the word "genocide" lets replace it with mas murder and stop arguing. Doesn't mean the Ottoman Empire wasn't a criminal and oppressive government that aimed to suppress and destroy other cultures and peoples.

Big K

Feanor,

check the thread from the beginning, look at the links i gave...

ooo Kansas Bear, i was starting to be worry about your health....where were you

nice to see you again hehehe


btw, now i have to leave but i'll be back (meetings).

__________________
I'm not willing to remain silent even there will be no effect when i say.

neyzen

Kansas here is Turkey map. Draw your way if you don't like their relocation. Armenian terrorist groups were where...? Should Ottoman Turks send Armenians to Balkans or to Caucasus and why?

It was not funny and lame sarcasm. The word genocide remains. You can change its meaning and than you should find a new concept for what we say now "genocide" "Genocide" is subject of international laws and it has original definition... Feel free to compare Ottoman Empire's oppressiveness with other states of her time. You'll wonder... Even if Ottoman Empire has such purpose, they would do it before 1915. It is not good timing isn't it?

Kansas Bear

No the question is to you. Why move any of them? Armenian women and children are NO threat to the Ottoman Empire. Plain and simple. To have WASTED resources to "relocate" them is idiotic. UNLESS, the true reason was for extermination. Why else WASTE troops to force march them, or (according to you) use trains to move them? Was the Ottoman Empire that terrified of Armenian women and children?

Yet again, logic has proven the "excuse" of relocation to be nothing more than a lie.