Recon_sgt

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they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

Officer of Engineers

Can I ask you not to use colours? It's hard to read.

That's an extremely difficult question to ask. Germany obviously could not have achieved all of her goals. The USSR was too hard of a nut to crack. BTW, I will bet on those 44 Siberian divisions against the Wehrmacht's Atlantic Wall 50 any day. I'll give the Red Army 30 days to kill all 50.

The Atlantic Wall divisions were those trying to recover from the Russian front. They had more horses than trucks. They were manned by old men or young boys. And they were called field divisions simply because they were in the field, not because they were manouver divisions. The Red Army Siberian Divisions, however, were molded by Zuhkov himself.

It all depends on where Hitler was willing to stop. It was damned stupid of him to piss off the Serbs, Georgians, and the Ukranians who were more than willing to join him against Stalin. Barbarosa could not have worked no matter what. However, Hitler may have been able to stop Stalin from invading Germany if the Allies hadn't gone in. However, there was no hope for him to ever conquer the USSR.

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Chimo

Jay

But it was not his primary mission when he started it, aint it Colonel?

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A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

eMGee

Hypothetically speaking, anything could've happened. So what is the point of this thread?

ajaybhutani

i think the big turning point was the pearl harbour incident. Though ti was difficult for gernmany to overtake russians alone but if japaneess hadnt invited the US in they could have helped capture Russian from the other side..We all know tha russians came back from the ashes during the battle. It would have been difficult for them to bear the japaneese full scale attack from the east.Again a point of strategy and i think OoE can tell us better about it..

It could have in case Us hadnt entered in.. but again its my personal view..

Officer of Engineers

In 1942, the Imperial Japanese Army attacked Siberia, sufferred over 250,000 casualties, and ran back into Manchuria with its tail between its leg. The jungles of the Pacific masked the fact that the Japanese was essentially a WWI army incapable of fighting a mechanized war.

ajaybhutani

BTW had germans attacked russians by then??

Ray

Could have.

Errors:

1. Opened up two fronts, That split attention and forces. USSR was still playing ball.

2. Went after the Jews. Sadly, the money was with Jews and so were the brains. He lost the Jews and to be fair, the Jews vcer not against Germany.

3. In his campaign Hitler kept changing his aim all the time. Op Barbarossa.

4. Overstretched his resources. He should ahve consolidated and ensured that Gemrany and its immediate gains were impregnable.

Off the cuff and not thought out comments though. Could be wrong.

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

ZFBoxcar

Yes, the Germans invaded the USSR in 1941.

Ray

If the USA did not join in, Europe would bne up a shitcreek inclduing the USSR.

eMGee

Interesting opinion.

Officer of Engineers

Sir,

Great Britain could have held out. She had the rest of the Empire to sustain her. Manpower wise, India alone outnumbered Germany. The Royal Navy and the Royal Canadian Navy was more than a match for the Kreigsmarine.

The USSR would have eventually evicted the Germans but it would have been far bloodier and far longer. The Germans could not match man for man and Soviet industries were beyond the Luftwaffle's range. As stated before, there were still 44 divisions in Siberia that had yet to see combat. These divisions were personally molded by Field Marshall Zuhkov and well versed in the Soviet Deep Battle Doctrine.

There is absolutely no doubt that American and Canadian trucks was the force enabler for the Red Army, supplying 90% of all Soviet Red Army needs. The Soviets produced 80% of its own combat needs. Combined, this enabled the Red Army to be a mobile army and take the fight to the Wehrmacht. Therefore, without the trucks, the Red Army would have still remained a formidable fighting force that the Wehrmacht had lost any chance of victory after Stalingrad.

Without the North American allies, I think you will still see a Nazi Germany, maybe keeping some territory but Europe would remain three power blocks. Great Britain, Germany, and the USSR.

Amled

Why Hitler went and declared war on the USA is one big mystery?
It played right into the hands of people like Churchill and Stalin and maybe even FDR. It was doubtful that FDR could have gotten Congress to declare war on Germany, if Hitler in his megalomania hadn't jumped the gun.
It would have made more sense if he could have gotten a quid pro quo from the Japanese and had them declare war on the USSR, thereby tying up those 50 Siberian divisions OoE mentioned. But he didn't. All he got was the entire industrial might of the US thrown in his face.

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When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

Officer of Engineers

The Japanese would have lost the war right there and then. Stalin was too pre-occupied with Hitler to worry about Tojo. Those Siberian divisions were his reserves, not an army to stamp the Japanese Kwangtung Army with. In 1945 when Stalin got rid of Hitler, he turned his attention towards Tojo. In less than 20 days, the Japanese Kwangtung Army was destroyed.

Recon_sgt

] First kudos to all. The last board that I seen this thread on (where I got the idea) it had become very uncivilized very quickly but you's have managed to keep from attacking one another.
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Much as i would like to share that optimism (doom for Britain = doom for Ireland) I must inform you that Germany nearly had the RAF beaten in the battle of britain. They would have finished them but for one reason. The Luftwaffe was ordered to bomb cities instead thus allowing the RAF to regroup.[quote]No no the atlantic wall divisions were not the 50 deployed to defend normandy. Some of them were (no more than about 10 if memory serves me).
The divisions inland were among some of the most dangerous well trained well disciplined and battle hardened in the Whermacht. There were a number of the fanatically loyal (renowned for their unbelievable skill on the battlefield) Waffen S.S. divisions in the Normandy area. Formations such as 12th S.S. hitler Jugend and Panzer Lehr divisions. Will post more later ok