Thread: Worst decision in WW2

Originally Posted by DWBSR620

I've always held a firm belief that taking on Russia so quickly by the Germans before finishing off England was one of the greatest blunders of WWII. But also after taking on Russia, Germany proved superior forces over Russia, yet how far could they've chased the Bear would've been the question, could they've really completely conquered The Soviets? Possibly with the help of Japan but we know that Japan made their costly error drawing The United States into war to soon, America had no intentions of getting in the war until Pearl Harbor. Too much, too soon for the Axis may've been the overall greatest cumulative blunder of the war. It's obvious that England alone would've eventually fell if Germany wouldn't have invaded The Soviet Union, and with The United States no where near ready to commit to war with The Axis whatsoever well let's say it all would've turned out very differently that's for certain. Too much, too soon, cost The Axis the war, truly in the case of The Allies never was there a better statement to ascribe to them then, "United We Stand, Divided We Fall." The Axis could only blame themselves for putting The Allies together at a time when it was The Axis choosing.


Peace To All.

Germany never had ANY chance at all of conquering the Soviet union, the best they could hope for was to force a favorable peace, but Stalin turned the war into a national war of venagence and when that happened there would be no peace until Germany was crushed.

Originally Posted by Wraith601

Germany never had ANY chance at all of conquering the Soviet union, the best they could hope for was to force a favorable peace, but Stalin turned the war into a national war of venagence and when that happened there would be no peace until Germany was crushed.

Germany made the grim mistake of invading Poland early. During this time Hiltler was building his Navy. Hitler didnt want to go to war with Britian until 1941-1942 when his Navy would be complete with the newest capital ships he planned to build in order to gain naval supremecy over the British Fleet. But England beat him to the punch and declared war in 1939. If Hitler had built what he planned as far as capital ships he possibly could have starved the soviets by completely decimating the convoy systems that kept the soviets supplied with food and munitions. The Soviets no doubt had greater troop numbers then Germany had at this time. But the fact remains that Germany could have possibly starved them into submission had he the Navy that he planned before making the mistake of invading Poland too early.

Also had the Allies not caught Hitler when they did the Soviets and the Allies could have been on the recieving end of the first atomic bomb. They already knew how to create it however they could not test it or assemble it while the Allies were quickly advancing on Germany and they had to cut and run. But as Japan soon found out the U.S. capitalized on the idea of the atomic bomb.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Germany made the grim mistake of invading Poland early. During this time Hiltler was building his Navy. Hitler didnt want to go to war with Britian until 1941-1942 when his Navy would be complete with the newest capital ships he planned to build in order to gain naval supremecy over the British Fleet. But England beat him to the punch and declared war in 1939. If Hitler had built what he planned as far as capital ships he possibly could have starved the soviets by completely decimating the convoy systems that kept the soviets supplied with food and munitions. The Soviets no doubt had greater troop numbers then Germany had at this time. But the fact remains that Germany could have possibly starved them into submission had he the Navy that he planned before making the mistake of invading Poland too early.

Also had the Allies not caught Hitler when they did the Soviets and the Allies could have been on the recieving end of the first atomic bomb. They already knew how to create it however they could not test it or assemble it while the Allies were quickly advancing on Germany and they had to cut and run. But as Japan soon found out the U.S. capitalized on the idea of the atomic bomb.

The Germans were never anywhere near building an atomic bomb as they relied on heavy water, which they had precious little, to enrich uranium.

Originally Posted by Wraith601

The Germans were never anywhere near building an atomic bomb as they relied on heavy water, which they had precious little, to enrich uranium.

Wraith, perhaps you may want to read about the sub U-234. Uranium that was on board among other things (jet technology etc were bound for Japan as Berlin was falling to the Allies) were taken by the americans and the speculation is that it was the key ingredients in the first atomic bomb. They have witness accounts that places the Uranium onboard the sub however once captured it lists no destination for that Uranuim.
Leading many to believe including experts thats where our first atomic bomb technologies originated from. I have been reading more about this sub but havent found any hard evidence but what I do find I will post links for.

This link is to a similar story of U-234. http://www.ussvance.com/Vance/nazisub.htm

An Edeict on U-234 from Wilkipedia (Not a great souce but still a source)

Japan disclosed its program to its ally Germany, and requested assistance. It is not known how much material Japan received from Germany, but at least one shipment that was sent to Japan by a German submarine was intercepted.

This submarine, Unterseeboot 234 (U-234) was sent to Japan in 1945 to deliver 560 kg of uranium for the Japanese program, as well as a disassembled Me-262 jet fighter and V-2 rocket parts (which would have been of little use for a primitive nuclear weapon). Two Japanese military officials and a number of German experts were also on board. The nuclear cargo was labeled "U-235," perhaps as a mislabeling of the submarine name, or perhaps in reference to the fissile isotope of uranium, uranium-235. It is extremely unlikely, though, that it was truly 560 kg of uranium-235—this would have been some eight times more of the rare element than was produced by the entire U.S. effort, and enough for Nazi Germany to have built many atomic bombs of their own with great ease. It is more likely that the uranium was un- or partially-enriched uranium oxide (which naturally has over 99% uranium 238). The submarine was ordered to surrender on May 10, 1945, two days after the overall German surrender, by Admiral Dönitz. To avoid capture, the two Japanese officials, Lieutenant Commander Hideo Tomonaga and Lieutenant Commander Genzo Shoji, committed suicide and were buried at sea the next day. The submarine was boarded by US forces on May 14 and the cargo fell into U.S. hands.

Some reports claim that the 560 kg of uranium oxide was enough to build two atomic bombs, but this would mean that it was substantially enriched (and would have also meant that Germany could have developed its own bomb with it, which it did not). That amount of unenriched uranium, if enriched to around the 90% needed for an atomic bomb, would provide around 4 kg of bomb-grade material, far less than needed for an atomic bomb (the "Little Boy" uranium weapon dropped on Hiroshima used over 60 kg of uranium-235). If put into a reactor, however, it could have potentially been used to breed plutonium, perhaps enough to use for a weapon if the program had been larger.

American bombing raids disrupted the development of the genshi bakudan, and both raw material and equipment was destroyed at the Institute for Physical and Chemical Research. To avoid further bombing, the development was relocated to Konan (now called Hungnam, in North Korea) early in 1945. This region was close to the source of ore, in less danger of attack than mainland Japan, and also a major industrial area in Asia. However, the move delayed the development by critical three months. Konan was captured by the Russian army in August 1945, and belongs currently to North Korea. The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6 and August 9 led to the Japanese surrender on August 15, 1945.

Another about u-234

Escape Of Martin Bormann
Currently, at the Amazon.com web site, Hydrick's book gets rave reviews. One review, "All History Is Not In The Textbooks," gives Critical Mass five stars and reports that Hydrick "tells us how the Germans developed the atomic bomb." A pre-publication review of Hydrick's then-research ("Hydrick U234 -- Rethinking the Manhattan Project") bases its synopsis on a web site formerly maintained by the author.


The pre-publication review, "Hydrick U234," explains how Martin Bormann, chief of the Nazi Party and Hitler's personal secretary, along with Gestapo Chief Heinrich Mueller, may have escaped justice in the closing days of World War II. A U-Boat, "U-234," the largest submarine in the German navy, silently patrolled the North Sea in the waning days of the war. Onboard was a special cargo: 1120 pounds of enriched uranium stored in special cylinders lined with gold. The submarine awaited orders from Admiral Karl Doenitz, commander of all German U-Boats. Late at night on April 29, 1945, Hanna Reitsch, a famous German aviatrix, flew a small plane carrying General Ritter von Greim, Martin Bormann, and Heinrich Mueller out of Berlin. They landed in Hamburg, where Bormann and Mueller boarded the now-waiting U-234.


A deal had allegedly been struck: in exchange for the badly-needed uranium and secret devices such as infra-red bomb fuses, Bormann and Mueller would be protected by the Allies. Bormann disembarked from the U-234 off the coast of Axis-friendly Spain. Mueller and the U-234's special cargo continued on, until it soon thereafter surrendered to U.S. forces at sea.. "Mueller, Bormann and many other Nazis received American protection for decades, and continue to receive such protection even up to the present day," reports the pre-publication synopsis.

http://www.shout.net/~bigred/Patton.html

I can keep posting if you like. There are numerous sources to this information.
http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/u234.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/01_...ve_a-bomb.html

From this page the subs contents http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/goldp9.html

one ton of diplomatic and personal mail
technical drawings and blueprints for advanced combat weaponry
anti-tank weapons
advanced bombsights and fire-control systems
airborne radar
an Me 262 jet fighter
additional jet engines
560 kilograms of uranium oxide76
Additionally the U-234 carried the following top Nazi experts.
Luftwaffe General Ulrich Kessler, on his way to become German air attache in Tokyo
Luftwaffe Lieutenant Colonel Fritz von Sandrart and Lieutenant Erich Menzel, experts in air communications, airborne radar, and AA defenses
Four Kriegsmarine officers, including a naval aviation expert, an AA expert, a naval construction engineer, and a naval judge (whose job would be to finally stamp out the last vestiges of the Sorge spy ring)
August Brinewald and Franz Ruf, experts in the technology and construction of jet aircraft whose mission was to begin production of Me 262 jet fighters in Japan
Dr. Heinz Schlike, a specialist in radar and infrared technologies76

Wraith,
FYI more technologies transfered between the Germans and the Japanese in the closing months of WWII then ever thought possible. There is plenty out there to read about if you wish.

Now that I have posted enough perhaps you may post enough to disavow this post?

Except the Germans never had a nuclear "pile" achieve criticality during the war. The Germans scrapped their entire program when they saw it fruitless.

German A-Bomb

You can post all the rubbish you like but you're still wrong, just having uranium is only a small step on the way to building an atomic bomb.

Originally Posted by Wraith601

Except the Germans never had a nuclear "pile" achieve criticality during the war. The Germans scrapped their entire program when they saw it fruitless.

German A-Bomb

You can post all the rubbish you like but you're still wrong, just having uranium is only a small step on the way to building an atomic bomb.

Rubbish? Ok whatever. Lost cause.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Rubbish? Ok whatever. Lost cause.

Glad you acknowledge that you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Wraith601

Glad you acknowledge that you're wrong.

Maybe you should read more about the technology the Germans and Japanese exchanged before declaring anybody wrong.