What if: Western Allies vs Russia- 1945

**Bill** · 13 Aug 04, 01:00

Russian TU-4 was inferior to B-29A, to be sure.

**Bill** · 13 Aug 04, 01:03

"No, Soviet AF was quite strong in the end of the war. But if you say that West had a lot of heavy bombers and Russians haven't good high altitude interceptor even in development, because air war on Eastern Front was going mostly under 4000m for a number of reasons, I would agree that it could give some advantage to West."

The Russians had absolutely nothing capable of stopping US/RAF heavy bombers until the introduction of the YAK-15.

In late 45, the US and RAF were already fielding jet fighter squadrons(Shooting Star and Meteors- late 44 for the meteor).

Allied naval power would not be irrelevant because the Allies could do a D-day style landing BEHIND russian forces in Eastern Germany/Europe...cutting them completely off. The Russians wouldn't be able to do a damned thing to stop that either. The US fielded over 100 carriers by the end of WWII. They'd have all been available for support of such a landing had a war with the Russians erupted.

**Officer of Engineers** · 13 Aug 04, 04:42

People keep forgetting that the Soviets were exhausted physically, industrially, and most of all, emotionally. The Soviets lost almost two generations of young men. They were ready to kill themselves to kill the Nazis. I don't think people realize just how much they hated each other (the same with the Americans and Japanese).

The Soviets were in no mood to take on a fresh bloodletting.

**griftadan** · 13 Aug 04, 08:25

Originally Posted by Alex

due to purely geographical reasons, you can't defeat Russia with navy only, so it's irrelevant. All wars Russia had were decided on ground.

black sea? baltic sea (in the summer)?

**xxxxx** · 29 Sep 04, 09:11

Originally Posted by Captain C

I still think you would have had the commies in China. You still might had had Korea and Vietnam, albeit on smaller scales since Russian technology wouldn't have been supporting them. You might also have not had a communist United Nations like we currently have.

:Dbanana

why do you call the united nations communist? Because they don't do anything the US tries to dictate them?

**xxxxx** · 29 Sep 04, 09:23

Originally Posted by bigross86

Like you said, the Russians just lost a good couple million in WWII. Their situation would have been much worse off, plus we had the nuclear advantage. Plus, American training was superior, weaopns and systems were rolling out at thousands per week and there were many who would have supported the fall of Communism inside the USSR itself.

I'm raring to hear your justification for an attack war against another country, and even using nukes against it. Is that what you call western civilisation?

**xxxxx** · 29 Sep 04, 14:40

Originally Posted by Ironduke

I heard the suspension was rejected by the US military, so the guy who invented it sold it to the Soviets. My grandpa told me that yesterday.

your grandpa is still alive? How old are you?

**xxxxx** · 29 Sep 04, 15:48

Originally Posted by griftadan

western allies would win directly after the war, for severally reasons. first of all, our airforce would have complete control of the skies (try thinking of any stories of a russian airforce in ww2. the only one i can think of was that over 2000 russian aircraft were destoyed the first day of barbarossa) second of all, the russians had no real navy (again, try to think of stories of the russian navy in ww2) while we had a whole war fleet that was about to be freed up from the pacific. thrid of all, the marine corp in the pacific would be ready to fight them commies, essentially doubling the us force in western europe. the only thing the russians had going for them was the t-34 (which blew the panzer tank away, which intern blew the sherman away) but we could quickly obtain a better tank from stolen german technology and war time experience. the russians had shere man power, but the american soldier would be much better equiped (the russians had been fighting a war of attrition for four years). however, give the russians ten years to rebuild, and they would win. there commie system spent 30 percent of its budget on military (at the expense of eastern europe) while america spent about 3 percent. over an even greater time though, greater technology would emerge from the stronger capitalist economy, while the russian economy would be in constant recession due to the huge military budget. and the west would again win (and we did!)

the russians had shere man power?
I know that the American military had about 8 or 10,000,000 "employees" (civil helpers included)! and they didn't had nearly as big losses as russia! I don't have any facts about the russian military at the end of WWII. anybody of you?

**EPA** · 25 Feb 05, 06:57

Battle of Marathon a man died of exastian i think not.

**~~Prosto ILya~~** · 27 Feb 05, 10:08

Ahem! Mega-expert enters the building. Because here ,as I see, great amount of mega-experts on Russian military and Russian condition after Great Patriotic War. And this knowledge as powerful, as Rinswind’s ability’s in wizardcraft. So, it’s time for another mega-expert. Me. Russky (yuk!).

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

People keep forgetting that the Soviets were exhausted physically, industrially, and most of all, emotionally

At the end oh the war Soviet People, despite great causalities, possessed army far greater than any western ally. Great Victory over Fascist scum gave them powerful morality boost. And, id our western allies suddenly desied to figth agains red “plague”, Soviet People were ready to retaliate. Any time, any where.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The Soviets lost almost two generations of young men

In Great Patriotic War Soviet People lost more than 32 millions. Among them were not only “young man”, but oldest generations and women.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

I don't think people realize just how much they hated each other (the same with the Americans and Japanese)

Hatred was powerful. More than anything. It is hard no to hate enemy, ho is planning not just to conquer, but also bring total annihilation to almost all nations of USSR. Enemy, who makes gloves from skins of CCamps prisoners.

Next.

Originally Posted by Fury

Soviet union tried to invade finland back in 1939 but the attack failed

Failed? Fascinating. Comrade “Scum-and-Moron” Stalin ordered to attack Finland. And for absolutely no reason, that’s fo sure. Still, after great casualties in USSR’armies, Finland was defeated.

(How can anyone trust history? History is written by human hand. )

Then, Finland allied itself with Nazi Germany. And the festival has started,

Originally Posted by griftadan

(again, try to think of stories of the russian navy in ww2)

Ever heard about Alexandr Marinesku? Genius submarine commander?
Guess not.

Soon ,thanks to Discovery Channel, the history of WW2 will look like this.
Winners of WW2 – Jedi Knights (USA), naive padawan (Great Britain) some aborigens (French).
Losers – Sith (Nazi German) leaded by Darth Hitlerous, dark padawan (Japan).
Oh, and there were hordes of barbarians from East (disciples of mysterious Red Side of The Force ), but they are total savages, and for sake of Jedi Order should be cleansed.

Originally Posted by griftadan

while the russian economy would be in constant recession due to the huge military budget. and the west would again win (and we did!)

USSR failed and West “wins” thanks to one man. USA citizen likes to say “Thanks Reigan”. Hardly. Thanks to Michael “The Traitor” Gorbachev.

**stratadmir** · 27 Feb 05, 18:53

Nice star wars talk there obi wan, but when u day that the soviet possesed a military far more powerful then that of thier western ally, i think not. unless u just mean wut they have in europe yes, but globally no. Another thing: alot of the equipment that the USSR had was from the USA and now they were not supplied anymore from them. Plus the USA advantage of nukes, would decimate the soviet armies. The USAF was far more superior than the Red airforce. All you ever need is two of three, but the USSR had the wrong combination of two of three. The USA had all three in great numbers. 1-army 2-navy 3-airforce. Because with the way I see it you can survive off two and put the third ionto industrialization. I think im getin off topic here lol. Plus you would also think that the East Germans and West Germans would rise up against teh Soviets too if they had a choice, I know my famlity would have joined the Western allies, instead of the Soviets. So it would be like the Soviets against the rest of the world and they would lose.

**dalem** · 27 Feb 05, 20:26

Cute topic.

If the Russians kept coming West in 1945, it would have been over for them in about 2 weeks:

- Week 1 -

Allied Air Force shoots down Russian Air Force.

- Week 2 -

Allied Air Force bombs Red Army supply lines and troops.

That'ud pretty much be it.

-dale

**~~Prosto ILya~~** · 27 Feb 05, 20:49

Originally Posted by dalem

Cute topic.

If the Russians kept coming West in 1945, it would have been over for them in about 2 weeks:

- Week 1 -

Allied Air Force shoots down Russian Air Force.

- Week 2 -

Allied Air Force bombs Red Army supply lines and troops.

That'ud pretty much be it.

-dale

And here I am, wearing white tuxedo, entering the halls of Mega-Experts.
Ahem!

Week I
Russian Air Force shoots down Allied Air Force.

Week II

Russian Air Force bombs Star-stripe supply lines and troops.

Week III
Aliens are invading. They look like hot amazons from depths of Mysterius Rain Forests. Only 35 meters tall.

Week IV

Asteroid smashes Earth

Week XXV

…

2 stratadmir

>Nice star wars talk there obi wan

Aleck Guinness rules.

>but when u day that the soviet possessed a military far more powerful then that of thier western >ally, i think not

Well, that’s main problem. In every forum opinion about “What if USSR vs. GB-USA and other abbreviation” depends on this forum location.

>the USAF was far more superior than the Red airforce

Superior? In what terms exactly? USSR had most advanced airplanes at the end of the war. Take Il-2, for example.

>I know my family would have joined the Western allies, instead of the Soviets. o it would be like the Soviets against the rest of the world and they would lose.

Your - family – yes, other family – no. That’s main problem here. I perfectly understand that on this forum no one will ever accept possibility of West Allies total defeat. The same way you can try to persuade that West Allies could crush USSR on Russian forum. At lest I hope that moderators won’t ban me here , as they did in Freerepublic.

**ZFBoxcar** · 27 Feb 05, 21:23

You're not going to be banned for suggesting the USSR could beat the West. You would be mistaken, but not against the rules.

**~~Prosto ILya~~** · 27 Feb 05, 21:25

Originally Posted by ZFBoxcar

You would be mistaken

From certain point of view. If West could defeat USSR - West would attack.

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