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Reply With Quote3 years alreadyOriginally Posted by Big K
this thread seems to continue longer than the war it self :D:D:D
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.
3 years already
Let's see if this can be kepting going... unlike the disappointing short war
Bugs,
I have never been a big fan of the Tiger B. Too undependable, even by German standards it was a plodding machine. The Russians captured an example and shot the hell out of it with different types of tank rounds. They found 122 hit at the edges of the weld seams would tear the plating open, and massive spalling was recorded found all over the tank with non-pepentrating hits.
Tiger Es were technically inferior to late war IS-2s. The earier Joseph Stalin tanks had a "step" like chasis that almost appears to be an immitation of the superstructure/hull set up on German tanks. It was 120mm of not so well sloped armor on top of thinner, IIRC well sloped 60mm armor. This type was vulnerable to 88mm L/56 guns. I suspect that was what Gross Deutland ran into as they reported they could neutralize the IS-2 at the range of about 1,100 meters but Russian fire at longer ranges could knoch the Tigers out. That encounter was sufficient to convince Hasso von Manteuffel that the IS-2 "was the best tank of the war".
Late production IS-2 has 90mm-110mm of one-piece face plate sloped at 60 degrees, thickness depending on from which factory it was manufactured. The 90mm hulls were made with better cast steel plate. This model, according to German estimates, could not be penetrated by the Tiger E's weaponry even at 100 meters. The Panther's more powerful 75mm L/70 could penetrate IS-2 armor at 700 meters, again according to German sources. The IS-2's 122mm could return the favor at 1,000 meters. For a breathrough tank, the late war IS-2 M44 was a deadly design. It certainly deserves to be on the list.
All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
See that on battlefield.ru too, but evidently it's you that posted it on the WAB answering my question the first timegetting old before my time, not good.
Vasilyi Fofanov on tank net assert that the late IS-2 M44's glacis armor, though, had varaible thickness from 90mm-110mm but never 120mm. The better steel quality, the thinner the plate. Maybe it's a concious weight saving measure.
I would be interested to see a history of Soviet war time metallurgy.
All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
Certainly on the list.
By late 44 / early 45 german metallurgy was suffering from a chronic shortage of rare metals reducing not only the quality of alloys used in they're tanks but also the number of APCR rounds available.
The Is-2 tank was exposed needlessly by Zhukov during the Berlin street fighting ( i don't know if it was overconfident in the tank or eager to finish the fighting , maybe both ) bearing the brunt of german infantry HEAT weapons.
Talking about line breaching tanks one should keep in mind T-35 and especially KV-2.
i remember 5 pages on this thread about it:
Unfortunately for the kv how one of the former contributers pointed out:
It was never used in this role...
thats the spiritLet's see if this can be kepting going... unlike the disappointing short warkeep pushing dude
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.
You forgot to mention that the 122mm's gun took all day to reload and ammo storage in the tank was pretty limited.Let's see if this can be kepting going... unlike the disappointing short war
Bugs,
I have never been a big fan of the Tiger B. Too undependable, even by German standards it was a plodding machine. The Russians captured an example and shot the hell out of it with different types of tank rounds. They found 122 hit at the edges of the weld seams would tear the plating open, and massive spalling was recorded found all over the tank with non-pepentrating hits.
Tiger Es were technically inferior to late war IS-2s. The earier Joseph Stalin tanks had a "step" like chasis that almost appears to be an immitation of the superstructure/hull set up on German tanks. It was 120mm of not so well sloped armor on top of thinner, IIRC well sloped 60mm armor. This type was vulnerable to 88mm L/56 guns. I suspect that was what Gross Deutland ran into as they reported they could neutralize the IS-2 at the range of about 1,100 meters but Russian fire at longer ranges could knoch the Tigers out. That encounter was sufficient to convince Hasso von Manteuffel that the IS-2 "was the best tank of the war".
Late production IS-2 has 90mm-110mm of one-piece face plate sloped at 60 degrees, thickness depending on from which factory it was manufactured. The 90mm hulls were made with better cast steel plate. This model, according to German estimates, could not be penetrated by the Tiger E's weaponry even at 100 meters. The Panther's more powerful 75mm L/70 could penetrate IS-2 armor at 700 meters, again according to German sources. The IS-2's 122mm could return the favor at 1,000 meters. For a breathrough tank, the late war IS-2 M44 was a deadly design. It certainly deserves to be on the list.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
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