Christians besieged in Pakistanm

[giggs88]

The photos from Pakistan were anything but travel brochure material. One showed a 9-year-old girl with dark eyes, large black burns on her legs and a heavily bandaged right arm. Another showed a 14-year-old girl with a face partly melted away like candle wax. The right side was a mass of charred skin after an assailant threw acid into her eyes. Their attackers said the girls' injuries are payback for the American invasion of Iraq. Americans may not have seen much retaliation on their own soil because, several human rights groups say, Christians in Pakistan are taking the brunt of it. The 9-year-old, Razia Masih, was beaten and raped on April 26 in the town of Faisalabad, near Lahore, ending up in the hospital with multiple burns, a lacerated left eye, a broken right arm and rope marks around her hands and mouth. She was working as a maid in a Muslim house," said Shabazz Bhatti, chairman of the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance.

"When the Iraq war happened, it was on the TV," he said. "The family [that she worked for] would call her into the TV room and start torturing her. Her skin was burned by the irons, her body wounded by a cricket bat and a medical report showed 15 wounds on her body. She was told by them, 'You are Christian and infidel, and we will take revenge on you for the killings of Iraqi children.' "The case has been registered [with police], but the culprits have not been arrested. Meanwhile, the girl's family has fled elsewhere, just to save their lives. The government authorities are not giving them protection." According to International Christian Concern (ICC), a religious-persecution watchdog group, the girl's family had unsuccessfully tried to get her out of her employers' home several times. After beating and burning her for a final time, the family sent her home to die. The All Pakistan Minorities Alliance, representing Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Balmeek, Bheel, Maingwal, Zoarastrian, Bahai and Kelash communities, has compiled a "catalogue of terror" on attacks against female Christians, beginning with the May 3, 2000, gang rape of eight Christian girls by militant Muslims near Lahore. A series of either gang rapes or acid-in-the-face attacks happened in July 2000, twice in 2001, twice in 2002 and three times so far in 2003.

On March 31, Natasha Emmanuel, 10, from a town near Rawalpindi, was raped by a Muslim neighbor linked with extremist Islamic organizations. The girl ended up in a hospital intensive-care unit for three days, the ICC says. "Christians in Pakistan are increasingly vulnerable to religiously motivated hate crimes, and Christian girls and women seem to be specially targeted," said Stuart Windsor, director of Christian Solidarity Worldwide in London. "We are outraged by the unwillingness of the police to investigate the complaints as this only emboldens extremists to continue to victimize Christians and other non-Muslims." Fearing such reprisals, the U.S. Commission on Religious Freedom wrote Secretary of State Colin L. Powell on March 19, asking him to remind foreign governments of their responsibility to protect religious minorities. "The commission is concerned that extremists have tried to portray military action against Iraq as part of an alleged U.S. attack on Islam," they wrote, "and that retribution will be sought against Christians, Jews and others throughout the Islamic world ...." The commission also asked President Bush to bring up the matter with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf during their meeting Tuesday at Camp David, Md.

"Since the U.S. military action began in Afghanistan," they wrote last week, "Christian institutions in Pakistan repeatedly have been targeted by religious extremists, resulting in over 50 deaths." But neither President Bush or Gen. Musharraf mentioned religious minorities at a Tuesday press conference to announce a $3 billion U.S. military and economic aid package for Pakistan. "The Bush administration has with this package applauded Pakistan for carrying out egregious human rights abuses and religious-freedom violations," said Joseph Grieboski, president of the Institute on Religion and Public Policy. "President Bush told the world that the United States will turn a blind eye to universal values and fundamental freedoms in exchange for political expediency and convenience." There are only about 3 million Christians among Pakistan's 140 million citizens.

Gen. Musharraf said Wednesday he knew nothing of the recent attacks on Christian women and denied there is an ongoing problem. "All the people involved in attacks have been eliminated or put behind bars," he said at a meeting sponsored by the U.S. Institute of Peace. "There has not been an attack in the last year against a Christian minority." Mr. Grieboski said Gen. Musharraf was either uninformed or lying. "He gives a speech about Islam being a moderate religion every time he panders to the West," Mr. Grieboski said. "But there's an ongoing targeting of Christians in general, with women being raped and men beaten and arrested. The government has yet to do anything to protect the rights of minority religious believers, whether they be Christian, Ahmadi Muslim, Hindu or any other faith." The plight of Christian women is entangled with the politics of rape in Pakistan, which has engaged human rights and women's groups for years. There is no category for rape in Pakistani law; only for "zina," which is either adultery or fornication. Unless four male Muslim witnesses can be found to back the woman's story or if the attacker denies the charges, the woman is blamed and usually jailed on charges of illicit sex. According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, a woman in that country is raped every six hours and another is gang-raped every fourth day. Since women often do not report rape in the country, the actual numbers are likely to be far higher.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/articl...30628095538967

[sparten]

pakistan-facts.com is a website run by a couple of late puberty Indians. About as reliable as Pravda on US Stories.

[giggs88]

I thought it was run by Pakistanis. Anyway, the original article was in Washington Times. They got it from there.

[Leader]

Originally Posted by sparten

pakistan-facts.com is a website run by a couple of late puberty Indians. About as reliable as Pravda on US Stories.

If you explain how that is a logical argument, I'll give you a cookie?

[lemontree]

Spartan
Maybe these two sites are more to your taste
http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF31.htm
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-PAK

[Ray]

Sparten,

Google and check up the Pakistani Christian sites.

It would be also interesting to learn how Yusuf Yohanna a top cricketer of Pakistan and Vice Captain without any drop in performance was onhis way out of the team and how the beeehive cricketer (I forget his name; his daughter died and so he became a beehive) coerced him to convert to Islam.

Hey presto, thereafter his cricketing career got rehabilitated!

[Ray]

1. eddie..........A Buddhist fan of Yousuf Youhana comments like….

Dear Sir My name is Eddie, I am not a Christian or a Pakistani. I have become a big Pakistan fan because of Yousaf Bhai (as my wife and I affectionately refer him to). As soon as the news about his conversion was confirmed I was very disappointed and to a certain extent angry to what he did to his former faith, The faith which gave him the power, the faith that gave him the raw talents, the faith that gave him the ability to represent his country, the faith that had helped him become one of the best batsmen in the world today. I am not going to write or voice anything about the politics behind it and all that, I just want to express my feeling to you as the representative of the community in Pakistan minority about how I personally feel (again I am not a Christian by any chance, I am a Buddhist). I just hope the action of Mr. Youhana will ironically make the Christian community in Pakistan even stronger and all the Christians can do is pray for him. I hope the pray will make him realize that he just made the biggest mistake in his life Eddie Pantitanont

2. watson..........Yousaf Youhana was proud and passion for Christian's of Pakistan. By Watson Gill, Holland

There was strange statement published in Daily Jang dated September 24, of Deputy Speaker of Sindh Assembly, Ms Rahila Tiwana “That woman are free to chose their husbands or religion in Pakistan” This statement is totally wrong and baseless. May I ask to Ms Rahila if Christian or Hindu or other minority's woman have right to choose her religion why not the Muslim woman? If Christian or Hindu woman have married Muslim in that condition those woman have to convert in Islam. But if any Muslim woman want to marry with any Christian or Hindu then??? . This is hybridism. This is the easy way to convert some one to Islam by force. In Youhana case, I would like to request all Pakistani Christian to ignore him. The time will show us that Yousaf Youhana will migrate to Europe or US for asylum and then he will say truth. Because, if he want to come back to Christianity he will be MURATAD and MURATAD have no right to live alive in Pakistan. I am waiting for his retirement then the circumstances will show us how wrong step he took.

3. Naila..........Need of a leader! Naila Joseph

I am unable to understand what is “Dr. Stephen Gill” trying to say or convey here by putting his 6 questions here. Is he saying that whatever “Yousaf Youhana” did was justifiable or as Pakistani Christian community we don’t have any right to express our grievances. Nobody is trying to take a credit for Yousaf’s success here. No body is trying to say that the reason for his success was “US CHRISTIANS OR OUR PRAYERS” But he had the whole Pakistani Christian community’s behind him for being the only Christian in the cricket team. And that was the only reason people used to pray for him. He made us(the suppressed Christian community) proud every time he made a cross or prayed publicly. But now a “U TURN” like this has left us feeling deceived and hurt. May be Dr’s Stephan is not happy for the support Christian’s gets but this is not the constructive way of taking such grudges out. We do need a single platform for the Christian youth and we do need to encourage bright boys/girls and make them feel “Special”. We should learn from “Yousaf Youhan’s” conversion and the “Situation Muslims Created” and do something to stop it happening again. I guess we all somehow feel the same way but don’t know what to do. We can't see a single leader among us who is answer to our questions or problems.

4. younah..........I agree with Robin Michael. By Younah Nazarene

Salam in the Name of the Son of God Jesus Christ, I am strongly by my heart agree with our brother Robin Michael, since it is a need of time to establish a association of brothers and sisters abroad to help our Christian family in Pakistan a narrow eyed and intolerant country toward Christians. I do offer myself for that cause. Thanks. Best Regards. Younah Nazarene

5. Robin Micheal..........Christians settled abroad must try to set a system to help youth in Pakistan to stay firm in their f

As a Pakistani Christian, I use to read twice a week christian Post online. On 22 Sep 2005, I read different comments from Mr. Stephen, Miss Niala & Mr. Adil Gill, about (Mohd. Youaf, formerly Youaf Yohana). In fact its true Youaf Yohana was an ambassador of Christian Community, but what has he done is painful for all Christian of Pakistan, I don't want to add my comments on it as he is an adult to take his own decision of his life. It's true our Christian community is happy to see him as a STAR Player playing for PK team, but I think he is only to knows what he was facing in his real life in Pakistan as he is only Christian man playing for PK team without any support from our Christian Minister's. I don't think any of our Christian Minister, Christian Bishops or anyone from high level took any action against Muslim's who raised their voices as, "O BHANGI AA GAYA MAIDAN MAIN HAIJ MALO". - Regarding our Minister's!! so far as I know our Christian leaders, they just come to our cities on the election time to collect votes and again vanish somewhere in Islamabad for next couple of years. Even myself do not know that presently who's our Christian Minister. . - Regarding our Bishop's and Father's, so far as I know and assume our Christian Bishop's (specially from Methodist churches) & Father are not honest & not open heart to our Christian community, specially to poor Christians. * There are some cases that you can become a Bishop in a night by paying to government. * There're some cases where Bishops are fighting like a gangster with other Bishops. * There’re some cases when Bishop wife was beaten by another Bishop (party), but no action has been taken from the Christian community. * There're some cases where Father are staying in the church parish house from more than 16 years when are allowed for 5 years only. I can say that Father's are using Church Parish house and Community donation, funds including (local and international) to their own benefit by growing their children , sending them aboard (foreign countries), making them married and give resident in the same Church parish house for their second generation. These days what I saw in Pakistan young jobless Men (including their wives & Children’s) or Boy's who knows reading Bible. They are calling them self Pastor's, gathering some poor people's from small area's, visiting their houses every week regularly for charity (chanda) or other benefits. When these pastors assume that they have enough members, they rent a room in their member's area and make their own church or create Memorial Trust on any name to collect all benefits in name of Jesus. Even if you put an eye on Christian graveyards, there are so many corrupt people. Most of graveyard boundaries are broken, wild trees and grass are growing but no one takes care. I personally request to all who are sitting aboard in foreign countries and like to do something for our Christian peoples of Pakistan, instead of writing “bla bla bla” please try to create a system in Pakistan for Christian community which help young Christian generation like Youaf Yohana to stay strong with their faith. I would like to thank you in advance for reading my mail and keeping in touch with me I will be happy to involve myself to help our brothers and sisters to put them on right track for their future good.

6. Jeffery..........Melbourne Pakistani Christian community is shocked and disappointed on Yousaf Youhana Conversion to

The entire Pakistan Christian community in Melbourne, Australia is shocked and disappointed to hear about Youaf Youhana's conversion to Islam. The Pakistan Cricket team toured Australia last summer and when the 2nd Test Match was held at Melbourne on 26th December 2004, the Pakistan Christian community arranged Christmas lunch for Youaf and his family. The Special prayers were offered for his success and he went on to score 111 next day and of course he made the sign of the cross upon reaching 50 and then 100. Youaf has deceived the entire Christian community and betrayed our trust. I would like to ask Mohammed Youaf if Islam is the true religion and he is now proud to be a Muslim why he had to hide it from the entire world for 3 years? There was an interesting view from Bishop T Nasir but of things I don't agree. 1. He may not have played as a captain but his position in the team was never threatened because of his religion. If that was the case then he may not have been selected to represent Pakistan in the first place. 2. There is no need to condemn Catholic religion just because Yousaf Youhana has converted to Islam. Are you (Bishop) trying to say that if Youaf was not a Catholic he wouldn't have converted?

7. Dr. Gill..........Dr. Stephen Gill have questions for Christians of Pakistan origin on apostasy of Yousaf Yohana.

1. Did they pray to God, so that Yousaf Yahona could be selected to the cricket team? 2. According to reports, Christians used to pray for his success in the team. Is it not an insult to his personal talent, his personal efforts and his own prayers? 3. If the prayers of Christians of Pakistan had been so forceful, then why do they not pray now for Yousaf Yohana to come back? 4. How was he received by Christian community when he was selected for the cricket team? Was he recognized in formal ways by the community? What are the names of the awards and recognitions that he has received for the credit he brought to the community and his country? 5. Is Christian community doing anything to welcome other heroes and heroines of the community? 6. I read a letter in Pakistan Christian Post to request readers to send him money, so that he could recognize heroes and heroines in the community. It seems he forgot to leave even his address and telephone number. He wants to fly with borrowed feathers. Is it possible to be able to fly this way? Is it not true that this story is that of Pakistan’s Christian community in a microcosm, may be even of the majority class?

8. stephen bahadur..........Threats to Yousaf Youhana on conversion to Islam by Christians are baseless and only Muslim Media Ca

We condemn the baseless accusations from the print and electronic media of Pakistan that in reaction to Youhana Conversion to Islam the Christian community has threatened him to assassinate. We are the true believers of Jesus Christ who teaches us to give our lives for others not to take others lives, as He gave his life for the salvation of the world including those who crucified Him. Moreover, in third world countries, minorities are free to live, free to earn, free to eat but they are not free to speak and Pakistan is also among the third world countries; Well when we are not dare to express our views, opinions and give our notions about anything how could we threat someone. However we condemn this accusation in this way; If any Muslim Cricketer has converted to Christianity, I think we all can imagine the protest and mishap shall have been done in reaction to that but no serious protest from Christians has been noticed since Youhana conversion to Islam; supporting and appreciating articles has been printing in the newspapers since then but not even a single article has been printed out to put light on the other side of the picture. The decision taken by President Musharaff is easily commented by people that it the America who is dictating him to take such decisions but the crucial decision taken by Yousuf Youhana is easily digested by people. How could a person representing his community in the team with such a religious spirit, all of a sudden come on TV to confirm his conversion to Islam for last three years however during last three year he repeatedly made the sign of cross while entering into the ground, reaching to 50 or 100 markup. What was the truth behind? Actually there is no interest for media to make an effort to pull off the curtain to know the real fact and true story behind the conversion. Let us tell you the gist of the true story which has been ascertained from different news resources that Tablighi Jamat has taken control over the Pakistan Cricket Team and one of the current members of the Team expressed his view in this way that they want to make the cricket team the most religious team of the world. They have achieved their first milestone, as a result of Youhana conversion to Islam. Let see what is more precious to Danish Kaneria (A Hindu Cricket) his career or his faith? Will Tablighi Jamat also convince him to accept Islam? At the end, I, on behalf of entire Christian community wish Mr. Mohammad Yousuf a very best of luck for the rest of his life because from now own whether he would be happy or repentant, he has to be Muslim. These were Christians who tolerated his deceitfulness and disloyalty silently but may be Muslims would not tolerate this in the same way if he dares to come back to Christianity.

9. Yaser Hamdani..........Yasser Hamdani on Yohanna's conversion

While it is true that religion is a personal matter, and Yohanna had every right to choose to be whatever he wishes (though one imagines what the consequence would be had it been the other way around), the way he has done it is a slap in the face of every patriotic Pakistani- not to mention all right thinking Muslims. Yusuf Yohanna's presence in the Pakistan Cricket Team as a Christian was a matter of great pride for all Pakistanis and Muslims. It was indicative of a culture of tolerance and acceptance that was in an embryonic stage. Yusuf Yohanna had a great opportunity of being a bridge and an ambassador of Christian-Muslim unity in Pakistan, but now all that is passé. As events have unfolded, the world has come to know that this was a conversion under duress and pressure. Yesterday Yohanna the Christian was a symbol of Pakistan's pluralism not to mention Islamic tolerance. No right thinking Pakistani or Muslim can appreciate Yohanna's conversion coming as it has in such shady circumstances. The religion of Islam is not a religion of duress but of tolerance and acceptance and of Istehsan. If indeed Yusuf Yohanna's conversion is genuine then he should do the following and I am sure as a true Muslim he would NOT have any problem in: 1) Acknowledging that as a Muslim, he still respects the religion of his birth i.e. Christianity, the faith of millions of Pakistanis and billions of people all around the world. 2) Acknowledging that he still is part and parcel of the Christian community and that despite his personal beliefs he will not distance himself from the Christian community but will continue to work for their social uplift without making their conversion a pre-condition. 3) Apologizing for making anti-Christian statements, which have infuriated the Christian minority of Pakistan.

10. adil..........Gathering: How to Help Pakistani Christians By Adil Gill

Taking a card from the west many educated Pakistani Christians shrug off events like Yousaf Youhana's apostasy. There is a wide sense of powerlessness which manifests itself in sarcasm and cynicism. Most Christians suffering from a sense of insignificance will ask themselves; "Should I do anything?" The answer is "Absolutely yes" instead they will crush that little courageous voice and tell their conscience "This is not my problem; besides nothing can be done about it". An individuals choice is his/her private matter but Youhana's apostasy is the tip of a larger malady afflicting the whole Christian Nation. It is our duty as Christians to help our brothers in need not pass the buck to the tooth fairy or laugh it off. Christians in Pakistan are under siege. They are under immense pressure and I salute there courage for withstanding it. The truth is it hurts when we see Christianity loosing. And if we could do something about it we would, as long as it was doable within the parameters of our busy modern lives. So let us do something, at least try to so that the day we meet our maker we can say "God I tried". I didn't loose courage because others before me had failed, "I still tried". I am setting up a Non-Profit organization to be funded by charitable donation from its members. This will be a government recognized charity and tax deductible. Its objectives will be providing financial support to: 1. Deserving Pakistani Christian students studying in higher educational institutions. 2. Financing Pakistani Christian institutes, existing schools and hospitals etc, which agree to run their affairs on "for-profit" basis in exchange for funding i.e. as a money making enterprise. This means relinquishment of control by the clergy (The cause of our troubles) to secular business administrators. Impossible? I don't think so the Church is in desperate need of money. Remember give a man fish and he will eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he will eat for life. In time the group will also try to finance: 3. Producing audio and video tapes full of Christian music and drama that enhances pride and provides a sense of belonging. I don't have the answers, just a lot of questions. Your help can answer some of them. Having tried and failed is honorable. If God moves your heart email me back and forward this email to all Christians you know. Regards Adil Gill Youhana like Judas has sold Christ for 30 pieces of silver. Like Judas he will pay an eternal price. If you can become a Muslim of your own free will why can't you leave Islam of your own free will? Adil Gill

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Letters To Editor
A Buddhist fan of Yousuf Youhana comments like….
Yousaf Youhana was proud and passion for Christian's of Pakistan. By Watson Gill, Holland
Need of a leader! Naila Joseph
I agree with Robin Michael. By Younah Nazarene
Christians settled abroad must try to set a system to help youth in Pakistan to stay firm in their f
Melbourne Pakistani Christian community is shocked and disappointed on Yousaf Youhana Conversion to


More Letters to Editor
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/lettertoeditor.php

[sparten]

Originally Posted by Leader

If you explain how that is a logical argument, I'll give you a cookie?

You can keep them thanks.

I thought it was run by Pakistanis

Never judge a book by its cover, or a website by its name.

http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF31.htm

HUMAN RIGHTS FEATURES

(Voice of the Asia-Pacific Human Rights Network)

(A joint initiative of SAHRDC and HRDC)

B-6/6 Safdarjung Enclave Extension, New Delhi 110 029, India

Tel: +91-11-619 2717, 619 2706, 619 1120; Fax: 619 1120

E-mail: hrdc_online@hotmail.com

Note the address. India

About the Amnesty International page it is

i) Four years old
ii) No one has ever been hanged for blashphemy in Pakistan ever.
iii) An old British Law which is still on the books. Why I'll never know.

Christians in Pakistan are increasingly vulnerable to religiously motivated hate crimes, and Christian girls and women seem to be specially targeted," said Stuart Windsor, director of Christian Solidarity Worldwide in London.

Note, who they use as a source in this article. Chritian Solidarity Worldwide.

The 9-year-old, Razia Masih, was beaten and raped on April 26 in the town of Faisalabad, near Lahore, ending up in the hospital with multiple burns, a lacerated left eye, a broken right arm and rope marks around her hands and mouth.

Yes, I read about this and it is a disgusting crime, but that does not mean all Pakistanis are like this.

[lemontree]

Originally Posted by sparten

Note the address. India

About the Amnesty International page it is

i) Four years old
ii) No one has ever been hanged for blashphemy in Pakistan ever.
iii) An old British Law which is still on the books. Why I'll never know.

Note, who they use as a source in this article. Chritian Solidarity Worldwide.

Irrespective of the source all these are facts that were reported in the press. It has also mentioned that none were hanged for blasphemy, but that was due to international pressure and the fact that the lawyers of the 2 convicted persons could prove their innocence. Thanks to their lawyers that they are alive today.

Yes, I read about this and it is a disgusting crime, but that does not mean all Pakistanis are like this.

Not all, but the majority seem to behave like the above, since the law of the land gives them the sanction to persecute non-muslims.