The Vatican and NASA

**Doktor** · 29 Aug 11,, 22:35

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

No, according to physics. There's a reason why we use radio instead of ultraviolet or infrared.

Shouldn't be the same logic why we use optics for faster communication these days, right? Let us advance a bit more and we wont need fiber

**DOR** · 30 Aug 11,, 01:53

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Here is the math. Like an ant colony, an alien civilization would have to know we're here before they could visit us. We would never visit an ant colony that we don't know if its there. So, the first signal we've sent was in the 1820s. A weak as hell signal but consider for the moment that an alien civilization could actually detect it. That means that any civilization that could detect us has to be within 200 light years.

Assuming that the aliens are like us, sending signals into space for their own purposes and they are superior to us, that means that they would have been sending signals into space a lot longer than we have. We've found no intelligent signals within 200 light years of us

I guess I'm missing the point about why they need to be within a 200 light year distance for us to hear them. Certainly, if they were further away but started earlier there might be a chance. But, I see no possibility of us responding, which means they may just assume there's no one home.

Or, they've misdialed.

**Officer of Engineers** · 30 Aug 11,, 03:26

Originally Posted by DOR

I guess I'm missing the point about why they need to be within a 200 light year distance for us to hear them.

They can't find us if they don't about us and they would not know about us until they can hear from us and hence, the first radio signal has travelled two hundred light years and only those civilizations within that distance could have heard us.

Let me put it another way. If we hear from another civilization today, they would have sent that message 100 years ago.

**omon** · 30 Aug 11,, 04:35

they might have known about us, for thousands or millions of years.
our radio signals to them might just be as unknown\useless as scent signals of ants to us.
i think the way we see\understand universe is really only a tiny part of what it really is.

**Officer of Engineers** · 30 Aug 11,, 05:25

That puts the aliens in the category that they were always here and raises a whole new set of questions that has nothing to do with first contact.

**DOR** · 30 Aug 11,, 07:23

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

They can't find us if they don't about us and they would not know about us until they can hear from us and hence, the first radio signal has travelled two hundred light years and only those civilizations within that distance could have heard us.

Let me put it another way. If we hear from another civilization today, they would have sent that message 100 years ago.

A radar sweep is very good at finding something even if (especially if) you don't know it is there. Someone based 5,000 light-years away with the technology to identify intelligently created patterns through changes to some aspect of physics we haven’t thought of yet might be able to realize that we’re here. Sort of like how we “see” millions of light-years by measuring colors, gravitational changes and so forth.

Another question, related to omon’s thought is that they might not recognize us as intelligent, or they might not care. Maybe knowledge of our existence would threaten their world view.

**Officer of Engineers** · 30 Aug 11,, 19:18

Originally Posted by DOR

A radar sweep is very good at finding something even if (especially if) you don't know it is there. Someone based 5,000 light-years away with the technology to identify intelligently created patterns through changes to some aspect of physics we haven’t thought of yet might be able to realize that we’re here. Sort of like how we “see” millions of light-years by measuring colors, gravitational changes and so forth.

That's the point. For a civilization 5000 light years away, they won't see this intelligent created pattern for another 4800 years.

**tankie** · 30 Aug 11,, 19:42

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

That's the point. For a civilization 5000 light years away, they won't see this intelligent created pattern for another 4800 years.

Perhaps Col they were here long ago and seeded the planet , the universe is billions of years old and we maybe playing catchup , and they are living a lot closer than is thought

**Double Edge** · 30 Aug 11,, 20:47

Originally Posted by tankie

I firmly believe they are here and have been for millennia IMO .

Why ?

Originally Posted by tankie

Perhaps Col they were here long ago and seeded the planet , the universe is billions of years old and we maybe playing catchup , and they are living a lot closer than is thought

Do you think its not possible for life to evolve by itself here on earth in the right conditions without external input. That to me seems like a better chance than arriving from space at the right time and the right place in the right conditions.

You know all about targetting, imagine the huge expanse of space and being able to hit a target from very very far

**tankie** · 30 Aug 11,, 21:03

For the evidence that's been collected DE , the cover ups , the ongoing sightings , and if as Col says ref radio distance , they must have been here for a very long time , IMO

Yes of course life cud have evolved here with no help , on the other hand it may not have , do you accept that that could be true .

Ref targets , imagine tech billions of years far in advance as us near earth bound creatures

**tankie** · 12 Sep 11,, 15:14

Faked or not ????????

UFO photographed in broad daylight in Seoul | Asian Correspondent

**Doktor** · 12 Sep 11,, 15:21

The amateur photography evolved so much in the last two decades, yet whenever there is a photo of UFO they are very blurred.

Ah, the AF snapped on the buildings, that's why

**tankie** · 12 Sep 11,, 15:27

Yes the enhanced pic is blurry ,but aint that bad

**Repatriated Canuck** · 12 Sep 11,, 16:08

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

That's the point. For a civilization 5000 light years away, they won't see this intelligent created pattern for another 4800 years.

So you assume that the laws of physics as we know it are %100 correct?

I think we will travel faster than light some day as an example. Even if it means folding or warping space as some theories suggest.

**Officer of Engineers** · 12 Sep 11,, 16:38

Originally Posted by Repatriated Canuck

So you assume that the laws of physics as we know it are %100 correct?

I think we will travel faster than light some day as an example. Even if it means folding or warping space as some theories suggest.

Maybe. Maybe not but for any civilization to acquire FTL technologies, they must at some point passed through the same period as we do, ie planet bound and the only way to contact anyone using what we know is the fill the skies with radio garbage.