What do you think about Islam

[illusha]

Just wondering what you people think about Islam. Post anything you like

[troung]

Same as any other other relgion.

A lot of nuts who follow it, a lot of good people who follow it and a lot of people who barely follow it and are Muslim in name only.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by troung

Same as any other other relgion.

A lot of nuts who follow it, a lot of good people who follow it and a lot of people who barely follow it and are Muslim in name only.

I agree with troung, but it seems like Muslims are fond of slicing people's heads off, videotaping it, bragging about it and saying they are doing Allah's will (natch).

I guess their idea of heroic holy acts are to butcher helpless tied-up people.

Inhuman savages....

[troung]

I agree with troung, but it seems like Muslims are fond of slicing people's heads off, videotaping it, bragging about it and saying they are doing Allah's will (natch). I guess their idea of heroic holy acts are to butcher helpless tied-up people.

And there are "Christains" who blow up abortion clinics, kill doctors, commit rasict acts, want to take science out of schools. So what there are ******** in every religion. I would never blame a religion for a group of nuts who claim to follow it yet use it to cover their nasty goals.

There are Jewish people who go exterme and do crazy stuff as well.

There are nuts in every religion and culture.

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by troung

And there are "Christains" who blow up abortion clinics, kill doctors, commit rasict acts, want to take science out of schools. So what there are ******** in every religion. I would never blame a religion for a group of nuts who claim to follow it yet use it to cover their nasty goals.

There are Jewish people who go exterme and do crazy stuff as well.

There are nuts in every religion and culture.

Agreed.
But then again, I don't know of too many Christians or Jews that gleefully rammed airliners into the largest buildings in the largest city of America.

[troung]

Yes but right wing terrorist groups that hide under the cover of Christainity have commited acts of terrorism on our shores and many openly preach ethnic cleansing and/or taking down the government.

So every group has its nutjobs...

[dalem]

And every day has its dawn and every bird its nest, etc.

I'm no big fan of any religion, and history does show that many major religions have had their periods of blood on the walls.

The issue at hand, though, is that right now, there is only one big religion on the face of the planet that breeds violence like a dungpile breeds maggots. And the Chairman of its Board is called Allah.

Islam is at a cusp right now. And it's not coming out smelling too good. There are a billion Muslims on the planet.

A billion.

If there are, say, only 100,000 serious knife-wielding martyrs, then that's .01% of Muslims who are dickheads that need stomping by the other 99.99%.

.01%. How hard could that be?

On the other hand, if there are more, say 1,000,000, or even 10,000,000, then we start moving into serious territory. But if there are that many, then the issue of "what the heck is wrong with Islam that it's breeding so many fanatics?" rears its head again.

So either Islam is a very dangerous religion that must be guarded against, like Nazism, or Muslims need to start their own Reformation and split visibly into two Supersects - the ones that want to kill me, and the ones that don't give a crap about me. Then we kill the ones that want to kill me.

-dale

[TopHatter]

Originally Posted by troung

Yes but right wing terrorist groups that hide under the cover of Christainity have commited acts of terrorism on our shores and many openly preach ethnic cleansing and/or taking down the government.

So every group has its nutjobs...

Absolutely correct. Some of these militia groups and hate groups are downright scary. I love seeing these neo-Nazi and KKK scumbags getting carted off to jail to become somebody's bytch.

HOWEVER....

Show me one that has a one-day body count like Muslim terrorists

[troung]

what the heck is wrong with Islam that it's breeding so many fanatics

Maybe a better question would be "What is so wrong with the region that is causing so many people to become radical?". And then we have the issue of why they are doing things, what is there real goal and why. And why do most of these guys who strike us come from nations thats governments likes us.

then that's .01% of Muslims who are dickheads that need stomping by the other 99.99%. .01%. How hard could that be?

Very hard.

Indonesia has been brutally fighting radical Muslim groups since the 1950s. They fought Darul Islam in the 1950s and 1960s. DI was being armed by the British at the time. They had brutal fighting for years. DI has since branched off more or less into the terrorist group JI. I remember following the trial of the JI leader after some bombing and public opinion there was totally againist him yet the locals were spilt on what should happen to him because of memories of what western nations have done to them (backed a nasty dicatorship). He got a couple years in jail. And of course in Aceh they are fighting the GAM which wants to instal Sharia law onto the province as well as breaking off from the nation (we don't want that).

Egypt had a dirty war againist the Brotherhood. Mass arrests and out right killing on a terrorist group back in the 1980s. Egypt also had to free hostages during the period. Syria did the infamous destrution of Hama to crush a radical Sunni rebellion. The Philippines has been "dancing" with the MNLF since the late 1960s in a brutal war and one of the longest ongoing ones in SE Asia. Thailand has been having Muslim issues since the 1950s. Algeria is rumbling with radicals as well, those radicals won the elections only to have the Army anul them. We are giving WOT aid to them.

All of these nations get hammered in the press for going out to take on these groups and when they don't they actually take it on the chin far less. It is a lot easier to be sanctioned for killing then sitting back and not killing. And plus it is simply a hard thing to do to get the right ones. And if lets say one sets off to wipe them out they would actually become the bad guys.

So either Islam is a very dangerous religion that must be guarded against, like Nazism, or Muslims need to start their own Reformation and split visibly into two Supersects - the ones that want to kill me, and the ones that don't give a crap about me. .

Islam already has 2 "supersects". And Muslims kill more Muslims then any other religion.

Then we kill the ones that want to kill me

When is the US government going to start killing off right wing radical groups over here which target Americans? And I don't mean after they do something but say preemptivly you know drop in bombs and launch commando raids and pick off the leaders and conduct mass arrests and holding them without trial.

That would actually not fly very well here with some.

[dalem]

Originally Posted by troung

Maybe a better question would be "What is so wrong with the region that is causing so many people to become radical?". And then we have the issue of why they are doing things, what is there real goal and why. And why do most of these guys who strike us come from nations thats governments likes us.

What's wrong with the region? That's easy - tribalism run rampant. And their real goal is exactly what they say it is - conversion of everything to Islam. Why shouldn't I believe what they say? Everybody acted all surprised when Hitler killed untermenshchen, Jews, and Russians, but he'd written his game plan down and published it years before.

Islam is no more complex from what little I understand about it.

Very hard.

Indonesia has been brutally fighting radical Muslim groups since the 1950s. They fought Darul Islam in the 1950s and 1960s. DI was being armed by the British at the time. They had brutal fighting for years. DI has since branched off more or less into the terrorist group JI. I remember following the trial of the JI leader after some bombing and public opinion there was totally againist him yet the locals were spilt on what should happen to him because of memories of what western nations have done to them (backed a nasty dicatorship). He got a couple years in jail. And of course in Aceh they are fighting the GAM which wants to instal Sharia law onto the province as well as breaking off from the nation (we don't want that).

Egypt had a dirty war againist the Brotherhood. Mass arrests and out right killing on a terrorist group back in the 1980s. Egypt also had to free hostages during the period. Syria did the infamous destrution of Hama to crush a radical Sunni rebellion. The Philippines has been "dancing" with the MNLF since the late 1960s in a brutal war and one of the longest ongoing ones in SE Asia. Thailand has been having Muslim issues since the 1950s. Algeria is rumbling with radicals as well, those radicals won the elections only to have the Army anul them. We are giving WOT aid to them.

All of these nations get hammered in the press for going out to take on these groups and when they don't they actually take it on the chin far less. It is a lot easier to be sanctioned for killing then sitting back and not killing. And plus it is simply a hard thing to do to get the right ones. And if lets say one sets off to wipe them out they would actually become the bad guys.

Certainly seems to me that Islam causes more trouble than it's worth then, yes?

Islam already has 2 "supersects". And Muslims kill more Muslims then any other religion.

Sure, and letting them do that for the last 50 years has brought us here to the opening of the 21st century with 1/6 of the world's population potentially wanting to plant themselves firmly in the 10th century.

When is the US government going to start killing off right wing radical groups over here which target Americans? And I don't mean after they do something but say preemptivly you know drop in bombs and launch commando raids and pick off the leaders and conduct mass arrests and holding them without trial.

That would actually not fly very well here with some.

Which right wing groups are those? Which ones are not actively being pursued, prosecuted, and "brought to justice"?

-dale

[troung]

Which right wing groups are those? Which ones are not actively being pursued, prosecuted, and "brought to justice"?

There are plenty of KKK, Nazi, militia camps and Abortion clinic bomber supporting groups still around. Why aren't they all dead? Just line them up and blow their brains out. Now we all know why, we have laws and locals have rights.

What's wrong with the region? That's easy - tribalism run rampant. And their real goal is exactly what they say it is - conversion of everything to Islam. Why shouldn't I believe what they say?

Tribalism gets you Afghanistan not international terrorism.

It has a lot to due with poverty, lack of freedom and corrupt governments.And of course we have the Israel issue which has huge sales appeal to the locals. In non Muslim nations many of these guys would become communist guerillas rather then Islamic terrorists. Look why most of these guys come from nations we get along with great. Poverty causes kids in many nations to get sent to religous schools. And of course the fact that we support those awful local governments which are so disliked.

Certainly seems to me that Islam causes more trouble than it's worth then, yes?

No because they are being opposed by other Muslims. Egypt, Indonesia, Syria, Algeria, Jordan and Morocco have Muslim majorities and yet deal with Muslim radicals. Muslim soldiers and police die fighting Muslim terrorists.

In Latin America during the Cold War we had Catholics killing Catholics in those bloody civil wars.

Sure, and letting them do that for the last 50 years has brought us here to the opening of the 21st century with 1/6 of the world's population potentially wanting to plant themselves firmly in the 10th century

You said 2 sects . There are 2 major ones and a bunch of minor ones.

Far less then that want to move back to the 10th century. And even of these groups not very many are fighting to live in the 10th century. Most are fighting to take charge of a nation or a province or whatever then throw on some burqas, smash some art work, burn some books and then make a lot of money off what ever they can.

The 10th century Taliban were making a lot of money when they ran the show. They made money off opuim, tariffs, smuggling, under cutting border tariffs, the gem trade and were still trying with the pipeline. So they are not fighting for a 10th century paradise but for control.

If forcing woment to wear only thongs sold today in the Muslim world and got recruits then every Afghan women would have worn a damn thong and the Taliban would still have been smuggling, gem trading, opuim dealing and playing with a pipeline and hiding international terrorists, in other words making money. It would be the same if making people eat with their feet could get people to join your cause.

They play to the crowd to get power thats not different from a Communist group or any other group.

[Ray]

Islam is like any religion and must be understood in the historical perspective of the era.

Mohammed was not a lettered person and his people wrote the book based on his sayings. Therefore, their baises too must have found some place.

Other laws were interpretations again by others.

Even today the ulemas interpretation is taken as law.

Unfortunately, unlike other religions, in Islam the so called scholars alone are empowered to give their interpretation and so there is a chance of their own agendas taking precedence. Individual opinions and interpretation is not valid.

[HOKUM]

War seems to be a part of human nature, but muslims seem to be involved in almost all of it.

There seems to be a ring of war surrounding the middle east (former yugoslavia, chechnya, afganistan, problems in china (not publicised), india v pakistan, indonesia, malaysia, sudan, isreal), granted not all were started by muslims.

In addition to all the infighting and world terrorism, thats a lot of killing

[-{SpoonmaN}-]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Agreed.
But then again, I don't know of too many Christians or Jews that gleefully rammed airliners into the largest buildings in the largest city of America.

Maybe cause Christianity comes down so hard on suicide. I can tell you about some christians who do things like grab guns, charge into refugee camps and execute and mutilate thousands of unarmed civilians to scare the PLO, and who round up thousands of muslim civilians and make them disappear because the UN doesn't have enough soldiers in the country to stop them. And then I can tell you about some christians who try to exterminate entire ethnic groups with death camps, as well as some Jewish people who like to go into villages like Dir Yassin and kill a quarter of the population and expel the rest, because there weren't enough sane people around to stop them. And I can tell you about some Hindus who go around setting fire to train loads of people who follow different religions, and some Buddhists who make mass arrests and then leave dozens of their prisoners lying face down in water. I can tell you just as much about them as I can about muslims who set off car bombs in market places and nightclubs, and who set fire to trainloads of people who don't follow the same religion.
And I bet you won't listen.

[-{SpoonmaN}-]

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Absolutely correct. Some of these militia groups and hate groups are downright scary. I love seeing these neo-Nazi and KKK scumbags getting carted off to jail to become somebody's bytch.

HOWEVER....

Show me one that has a one-day body count like Muslim terrorists

Here's the handywork of the Orthodox Christian based Bosnian Serb Army. I'd imagine you've heard of it:

From the Encarta Encyclopedia (2004) article on Srebrenica:

"Evidence is mounting that Bosnian Serbs massacred up to 7000 Muslim men from the town and region and buried the bodies in mass graves near Srebrenica."

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

If you want I could find you a dozen more sources for it. An example that white christians are no more exempt from the darker side of human nature than anyone else. I should add that's more than twice the number of people who died in the September 11th attacks on the USA.