A Biblical Seven Years

[Gun Grape]

Since we are a little off topic, but still in the biblical references

Well we do have "in God we trust" printed on our money.

Only continuously on all coinage since 1938.
First use was on the 2 cent coin in 1864

And this is the 51st anniversary of its use on paper money 1957.

So its a pretty new idea.

Our primary laws are based on the 10 commandments

No they are not. English common law, forms the basis for our laws and they predate Christianity in England by a few hundred years.

and the military and the presidential oath still have God in them.

the military oath had it incorporated in the 1861s as part of the "Loyalty Oath" era of Lincoln rooting out traitors. Not part of the original Constitution.

The Presidential oath does NOT have the words "so help me God" in it.

Art 2 Sec 1 Clause 8.

Our pledge of allegiance plainly says "one nation under god".

Part of the Pledge only since 1954

So I would have to say that God did definitely have a role in our government.

And its all recent additions. Nothing from the days of our Founding Fathers. Who made a point to keep references to God out of the Constitution, and as many expressed, out of the Federal government

[Blue]

And its all recent additions. Nothing from the days of our Founding Fathers. Who made a point to keep references to God out of the Constitution, and as many expressed, out of the Federal government

And thats one of the many things I like about our founders. I should have been more precise there. There is however, no shortage of it in the states. I was surprised by this bit of research. Mostly it is used in swearing of allegiance to an office or court.http://lawcrawler.findlaw.com/script...=pro&entry=god

So could the "introduction" of God into our federal niches be the cause of some of the problems? Anyone? Is there a place for God(not religion) in government?

[brokensickle]

Brokensickle stated an opinion. It could be based on religion, it could be based on a bad experience, it could simply be how he was raised. Regardless, he came on here and said what he thought. One person here gave a mindful rebuke to his posts, the rest of you, and you know who you are, could do nothing better than come up with name calling and sophmoric humor. I think more than one of you could use the 800 help number posted, starting with the poster.

Thank you Snipe,

HistoricalDave either didn't read my reason for my out rage or refuses to acknowledge it for lack of a good response. First of all he evoked the name of God into the debate not me. God can take care of Himself quite well. God does not need my help defending what he believes.

My only response was a response to Dave when he implied that it was a solely a Christian dislike for the homosexual agenda that was bigoted. My response was that people of every different stripe, religious or other wise disagree with the homosexual agenda. It just so happens that I am a Christian.

But to the point, when does a persons lack of morals give them a right to train my or other peoples children their perverted life style? Where are the boundaries? Are there boundaries? Or is school and government up for grabs for any new immoral revelation that comes down the pike? Why would the homosexual agenda be a good thing to foist upon children? Answer: to create more homosexuals. Why?, you might ask. Because a man and a man can not procreate neither can a woman and a woman. This agenda is a matter of survival as the homosexual views it IMHO. When two homosexual men get old they're not much to look at. NOT VERY ALLURING. But the young blood...HMMM
Hence the energy is focused at the youth. Where do you find the youth when they are not at home with their parents? AT SCHOOL!

Go to a search engine and type in, ' HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA IN THE SCHOOLS', Read the articles and case histories of how this agenda is spreading rapidly and viciously in the public schools and in government to push its agenda on your kids, my kids, and everybody's kids. It's enlightening.

Here is an article of the agenda of the homosexual movement:

Homosexual activists have set a well planned and well financed agenda that started in the 1960s and now includes not only tolerance of their lethal lifestyle but acceptance with privileges as a special class, as a minority group. The key target is our youth. This can be seen in the following written by “gay revolutionary” Mark Swift and printed in the February 15, 1987 issue of Gay Community News. These excerpts are reprinted from the Congressional Record:

“We shall sodomize your sons, We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your youth groups, Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will come to crave and adore us. All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men. Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable.... We shall raise vast, private armies...to defeat you. The family unit....will be abolished. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory....All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men. Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.”

This is just scratching the surface, but is appropriate to know the full scope of the agenda, and it ain't tolerance. This is their words not mine.

When the judgment on homosexuality comes down on America or Europe it will not be Christian's making it. I am trying to reason with people on the subject because in my view immorality causes civilization to collapse.

Countries of affluence fall historically but it is not necessarily the affluence of the country that causes the fall. Immorality seems a symptom before such a event. I hold to this view.



Sincerely, Ivan

[GraniteForge]

And thats one of the many things I like about our founders. I should have been more precise there. There is however, no shortage of it in the states. I was surprised by this bit of research. Mostly it is used in swearing of allegiance to an office or court.http://lawcrawler.findlaw.com/script...=pro&entry=god

So could the "introduction" of God into our federal niches be the cause of some of the problems? Anyone? Is there a place for God(not religion) in government?

This observation has been made from time to time, mostly by people who think seriously about religion and its role in a pluralistic Republic.

A good friend of mine, deeply religious but who regards religion as a very private matter not intended by the Founders to be merged with politics, once said to me: "We won World War 2, defeating two hostile empires simultaneously, without leaning on Him first, and we've gotten our butts kicked in every war since we became such an overtly Christian nation. Maybe God is telling us that before we demand divine intervention, we first put in some brainwork and sweat of our own. He will still be there is we really need help."

[astralis]

ivan,

I am trying to reason with people on the subject because in my view immorality causes civilization to collapse.

yeah, okay-- one of the cultural cornerstones of western civilization was the greeks. the greeks were possibly the most homosexually-inclined people in the mediterranean. the famed athenians might have set up the principle of democracy, but they also had boy brothels (which preceded said democracy). the spartans had enforced boy-man relationships. both civilizations lasted hundreds of years.

as for the so-called "homosexual agenda", do note that all populations, no matter HOW anti-homosexual they are, have an even spread. islamic countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuals- that does not preclude them from existing. islamic culture across most countries is heavily anti-homosexual...yet they still exist. your argument falls flat.

[gunnut]

ivan,



yeah, okay-- one of the cultural cornerstones of western civilization was the greeks. the greeks were possibly the most homosexually-inclined people in the mediterranean. the famed athenians might have set up the principle of democracy, but they also had boy brothels (which preceded said democracy). the spartans had enforced boy-man relationships. both civilizations lasted hundreds of years.

as for the so-called "homosexual agenda", do note that all populations, no matter HOW anti-homosexual they are, have an even spread. islamic countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuals- that does not preclude them from existing. islamic culture across most countries is heavily anti-homosexual...yet they still exist. your argument falls flat.

I don't know...

The homo-loving ancient Greek states are no longer with us but the homo-hating Islamic states are still with us...

[astralis]

gunnut,

The homo-loving ancient Greek states are no longer with us but the homo-hating Islamic states are still with us...

what are you talking about, greece is still there...and doing better than most of the islamic states

[brokensickle]

ivan,

yeah, okay-- one of the cultural cornerstones of western civilization was the greeks. the greeks were possibly the most homosexually-inclined people in the mediterranean. the famed athenians might have set up the principle of democracy, but they also had boy brothels (which preceded said democracy). the spartans had enforced boy-man relationships. both civilizations lasted hundreds of years.

But where are they today? You really are helping me make my point. But the point stands without my help. As truth can stand despite the machinations of man to uphold it.

as for the so-called "homosexual agenda", do note that all populations, no matter HOW anti-homosexual they are, have an even spread. islamic countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuals- that does not preclude them from existing. islamic culture across most countries is heavily anti-homosexual...yet they still exist. your argument falls flat.

Falls flat on fertile ground....

Hence comes the judgment on Europe and again you make my point. I am observing the fall but the judgment is being carried out by conquering opportunist. My concern is for the health and future of Europe not a desire to see it or America decompose and come to nothing. I pray for Europe and America to come out of its nose dive into Immorality. But it seems the immoral are more bent on their own personal gratification for the moment than the bigger picture of national health.



In the ruins and artifacts of great fallen civilizations are found evidences of homosexuality and immorality at its peak frozen in time to remind us of the excesses before its demise. And hey it wasn't Christian's that crushed the weakened empires, but they fall from within and were further ground to dust by conquering opportunist that perceived the holes in the Armour and thusly thrust their swords in it.



If any one is interested, here is just one of thousands of links to bolster this point.When Nations Die




Ivan

[astralis]

thanks for reading my post, brokensickle.

here's the condensed version:

homosexuality existed before the greeks became great. it existed when the greeks were great. and it existed after the greeks were not great.

what BS about immorality. by whose standards? the phoenicians thought one was immoral if one didn't contribute children for a massive public burning to appease the gods, the romans thought one was immoral if one believed in a jewish subcult (that's what they thought of christianity). the victorians thought one was immoral if one (white) procreated with a "son of ham" (blacks). apparently in ivan's belief, it's immoral and will lead to massive civilization breakdown if you stick it IDB (no word yet on if that is limited to man on man or man or woman)...

troung,

try not to have too much fun with his phrase "thusly thrust their swords in it"...

[Bigfella]

troung,

try not to have too much fun with his phrase "thusly thrust their swords in it"...

Or the fact that the link provided is to a representitive of Probe Ministries.

Can we please banish this troll? If his posts were about race he would already be gone. He is clearly in need of help that is beyond the ability of WAB to provide.

[brokensickle]

thanks for reading my post, brokensickle.

here's the condensed version:

homosexuality existed before the greeks became great. it existed when the greeks were great. and it existed after the greeks were not great.

what BS about immorality. by whose standards? the phoenicians thought one was immoral if one didn't contribute children for a massive public burning to appease the gods, the romans thought one was immoral if one believed in a jewish subcult (that's what they thought of christianity). the victorians thought one was immoral if one (white) procreated with a "son of ham" (blacks). apparently in ivan's belief, it's immoral and will lead to massive civilization breakdown if you stick it IDB (no word yet on if that is limited to man on man or man or woman)...

troung,

try not to have too much fun with his phrase "thusly thrust their swords in it"...

Troung/Astralis, Which are you troung or astralis?

Are you faking being two people?Caught?:(

You betray your deception? Or is it just a coincidence?

Can you be trusted?

To the point. I think killing children is immoral. If the Phoenicians thought it was moral...wow they were way off. Radical homosexuals considers their deeds moral and many are for killing babies through abortion...wow there may be a point your making here that is profound indeed. What do you think about killing innocent babies?

My son dates a daughter of Ham and I as a Christian have no problem with that...Never have...Do you have a problem with that? But since I am a Christian and a sub cult of the Jews, I suppose I would have been hated by the said historic Romans.

What's your point? I believe your point is to pigeon hole me as a bigot. Well hold on Troung/Astralis, I have friends that are homosexual. They know what I believe and we have sensibly argued on this point. I am a man of reason, not of sword. But I call em' like I see em'. I am entreating the homosexuals and the immoral to change for the sake of the Western Civilization. I'm afraid they won't change until they come to face the truth of the outcome of their deeds. Mean while, I don't want them indoctrinating my children and perverting my government. That does not seem to much to ask. But apparently they are not able to change. But I have more hope than that.



Ivan

[gunnut]

gunnut,



what are you talking about, greece is still there...and doing better than most of the islamic states

But the present day Greece was established after WW1 and the dissolution (is that the right word?) of the Ottoman Empire. If you count the eastern Roman Empire (Empire of the Greeks), then Greece hasn't existed for nearly 700 years. If you don't count that, then Greece hasn't existed as a seperate political entity for nearly 2000 years.

The present day Greece is not as homo-loving as their ancestors once did. )

edit: my mistake. Modern Greece came into existance in 1821 after a war against the Ottomans.

[astralis]

ivan,

Troung/Astralis, Which are you troung or astralis?

Are you faking being two people?Caught?

You betray your deception? Or is it just a coincidence?

Can you be trusted?

can you be trusted to read?

I am entreating the homosexuals and the immoral to change for the sake of the Western Civilization. I'm afraid they won't change until they come to face the truth of the outcome of their deeds. Mean while, I don't want them indoctrinating my children and perverting my government. That does not seem to much to ask. But apparently they are not able to change. But I have more hope than that.

for someone who likes to babble about freedom and individualism, you seem to have no problem pushing morality on other people.

[astralis]

gunnut,

But the present day Greece was established after WW1 and the dissolution (is that the right word?) of the Ottoman Empire. If you count the eastern Roman Empire (Empire of the Greeks), then Greece hasn't existed for nearly 700 years. If you don't count that, then Greece hasn't existed as a seperate political entity for nearly 2000 years.

The present day Greece is not as homo-loving as their ancestors once did.

edit: my mistake. Modern Greece came into existance in 1821 after a war against the Ottomans.

okay, and either time i don't think greece was done in by homosexuals. the romans whom crushed the greeks also had boy brothels- just not quite as openly.

on an interesting side-note, in the never-ending wars between athens and sparta, guess which side won? the thebens, with their famous Sacred Band, which crushed an oh-so-elite spartan army three times its size. when philip of macedon (father of alexander the great) crushed the greek city-states in turn, the sacred band fought to the death, to the point where even the hard-bitten philip said "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."

where people put their private bits has nothing to do with national power.

[gunnut]

gunnut,



okay, and either time i don't think greece was done in by homosexuals. the romans whom crushed the greeks also had boy brothels- just not quite as openly.

on an interesting side-note, in the never-ending wars between athens and sparta, guess which side won? the thebens, with their famous Sacred Band, which crushed an oh-so-elite spartan army three times its size. when philip of macedon (father of alexander the great) crushed the greek city-states in turn, the sacred band fought to the death, to the point where even the hard-bitten philip said "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."

where people put their private bits has nothing to do with national power.

So San Francisco would crush Al Queda if they were to fight a war against each other? )