Obesity and Pre-Modern Diet

[Ironduke]

The media is filled with articles about the obesity epidemic in the West, with attribution to various sources (whether glandular problems, "fat genes", high-carb diets, overeating, lack of time to cook, etc). I was pondering the subject for a few minutes today, and came to think that maybe the main cause of obesity is a failure to adjust caloric intake from a previously appropriate high level to a much lower level.

Something like over 90% of the world's population was once engaged in agriculture. Even as we transitioned to the modern age most jobs were fairly labor-intensive until fairly recently. In today's modern world, most jobs are fairly sedentary.

The peasants who formed the mass of the populations in agricultural lands must have required an enormous caloric intake in comparison to what is appropriate today for the average Westerner. I'm thinking something along the lines of over 4000 calories a day. Now the recommended daily intake for the average man is something like 2500-3000 calories a day?

Just a bit of rambling, any thoughts?

[Debbie]

True enough - on the farm with the expenditure of calories, men could eat a huge breakfast, lunch and dinner with time out for snacks. That was when horses were still used. The guesstimate of 4000 calories would be I would say fairly close. With the advent of tractors, life got easier but the food intake still remained the same. That is why especially in the 70's and 80's, older farmers were quite large. These days, caloric intake is less, farmers are a bit smaller in size.

Off the farm, we as a nation (the US) are heavy. The international people we get coming in at work all make the same comment. Portion size is too big, we eat far more calories than needed. A typical plate sixe of food off the menu at a Chinese restaurant is enough to feed four people.

For my size, 1200 calories or less a day is sufficient. I've gotten by on 600
when I had to and it's surprising how little the body needs. Problem with taking in less than caloric need is that it does impair brain function to a slight degree.

[jame$thegreat]

Although I am overweight and I tend to overeat I still retain a comfortable bodyweight of 230lbs. The fact I eat so much and maintain a faily constant rate of about 230lbs and eat so much everyday really proves to me how much you have to eat to maintain a constant bodyweight of 300lbs+. It amazes me when I see people that are 500lbs+ walking around living their lives and not eating, judging by the way I eat I would have to be eating lard every minute of the day without rest ot reach that weight (even at 6' 3"). I baffles me that someone could get to that point without saying "hold on a minute, I'm morbidly obese" before getting to 500lbs! Such a thing had not existed in those times because the food was not available, no one who could afford that much food would eat enough that it would debilitate them (as many do now) and the food eaten then was not as fattening. I personally think these are the only significant reasons for the rise in popularity of obesity today.

[Ironduke]

Such a thing had not existed in those times because the food was not available, no one who could afford that much food would eat enough that it would debilitate them (as many do now) and the food eaten then was not as fattening.

Grains are actually very energy dense... if you compare a slice of bread to a slice of lean ham, you'll find that the slice of bread has about 3-4 calories per gram vs. 1 calorie per gram for the ham. People think they're doing themselves a favor by eating a bag of fat-free pretzels, they'd be far better off eating a huge piece of beef jerky.

[glyn]

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Grains are actually very energy dense... if you compare a slice of bread to a slice of lean ham, you'll find that the slice of bread has about 3-4 calories per gram vs. 1 calorie per gram for the ham. People think they're doing themselves a favor by eating a bag of fat-free pretzels, they'd be far better off eating a huge piece of beef jerky.

True, true and spoken with a mouthful of teeth - so why are the prizes on WAB butter cookies?

[Ironduke]

Butter cookies go way back...

Et Tu Pakistan ?

Truly they are quite the WAB phenomenon... you'll see that butter cookies are mentioned in 562 posts, about 1.4% of total forum posts. Maybe someone else can figure out how it is ironic that 98.6% do not.

[jame$thegreat]

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Grains are actually very energy dense... if you compare a slice of bread to a slice of lean ham, you'll find that the slice of bread has about 3-4 calories per gram vs. 1 calorie per gram for the ham. People think they're doing themselves a favor by eating a bag of fat-free pretzels, they'd be far better off eating a huge piece of beef jerky.

Now compare that ham on two slices of that bread with a Big Mac and you have an example of the metamorphisis our diet has gone through.

[Adux]

89 Kgs at 5,11
9 Kgs over-weight, gained it over the last 2 months.

[gunnut]

You know why people get fat? They enjoy eating.

I personally don't care much about food. I eat because if I don't, I'd probably die. I take no pleasure in eating. It's more like a chore.

Guess what? I'm not fat even though I'm surrounded by junk food and snacks and easy to get fastfood.

[Feanor]

Originally Posted by gunnut

You know why people get fat? They enjoy eating.

I personally don't care much about food. I eat because if I don't, I'd probably die. I take no pleasure in eating. It's more like a chore.

Guess what? I'm not fat even though I'm surrounded by junk food and snacks and easy to get fastfood.

Self-discipline. It's something modern Western teen-agers sorely lack. Perhaps conscription for a year or two of military service (not any hot-spots of course) would actually help with that.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Originally Posted by jame$thegreat

Although I am overweight and I tend to overeat I still retain a comfortable bodyweight of 230lbs. The fact I eat so much and maintain a faily constant rate of about 230lbs and eat so much everyday really proves to me how much you have to eat to maintain a constant bodyweight of 300lbs+. It amazes me when I see people that are 500lbs+ walking around living their lives and not eating, judging by the way I eat I would have to be eating lard every minute of the day without rest ot reach that weight (even at 6' 3"). I baffles me that someone could get to that point without saying "hold on a minute, I'm morbidly obese" before getting to 500lbs!

It's in large part a matter of metabolism. People vary widely in the amount of energy they require for daily functions. You may be able to eat 3000 calories a day and keep the same weight, while another person simply cannot burn that amount of energy in a day, so it goes to fat.

As for myself, I've pretty much decided that I don't have a metabolism. As far as I can tell, my caloric intake has nothing to do with my weight. I've gone for days at a time without eating anything but an occasional snack. At school I often only eat one meal per day. OTOH, when I'm home I can eat three big meals a day, plus snacks. I probably range from less than a 1000 to well over 3000 calories a day, and it has no effect on my weight whatsoever. Guess I've just got weird body chemistry.

[Ironduke]

I'm 5'9" 214 lbs. myself... actually dropped about 21 lbs over the past 35 days. At that rate I'm burning 2100 calories a day in excess of what I'm taking in, so my daily energy needs are probably 3500-4000 per day.

Don't let the numbers fool you though... I need a belt to keep up a pair of jeans with a 34" waist and have a 48" chest. One of the benefits of loading trailers 4-5 hours a day at UPS, I suppose. I could stand to drop to 195 lbs, which is an appropriate weight for my build and would bring my body fat % to less than 10%.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Grains are actually very energy dense... if you compare a slice of bread to a slice of lean ham, you'll find that the slice of bread has about 3-4 calories per gram vs. 1 calorie per gram for the ham. People think they're doing themselves a favor by eating a bag of fat-free pretzels, they'd be far better off eating a huge piece of beef jerky.

It's virtually impossible to get fat from eating protein. The metabolism of protein is long and involved, and the energy density is too low. Fats and carbohydrates, OTOH, are quickly metabolized, and much richer in energy.

[Ironduke]

It's virtually impossible to get fat from eating protein. The metabolism of protein is long and involved

Exactly. I estimate I get about 60% of my energy intake from protein.

[jame$thegreat]

Originally Posted by Ironduke

48" chest

Me too, I take a size 48long suit.

Originally Posted by Ironduke

I need a belt to keep up a pair of jeans with a 34" waist

Can't say the same... (40" w/o belt)

Personally I would like to drop down to maybe 200-210 but its really not pressing enough for me to go out and do it. I am comfortable with my weight and am happy that I am big.