Very true. But there's another factor and that is how health care is delivered.Originally Posted by Gun Grape
It may also be a reaction to lawsuits. A little anectote will explain. Back in the 1950s as a kid I cut my ankle wide open playing in the woods. I limped down to the nearest pharmacy which, appalled at the pool accumulating on the floor, sent me across the street to a doctor's home. The doctor, a nice man, ushered me into a white room and started rummaging thru a box of suture needles and threw one in a sterilizer, got some thread down and then sadly informed me that he was out of anesthetic. Would I mind if he stitched me up without it. I looked at the gaping slice on my ankle and said go ahead. He said you should have six, but i'll just do three, and he proceeded to stitch me up.
Big difference from that time to this: He didn't have me fill out any forms; he didn't weigh me, take my blood pressure or make me pee into a bottle; he didn't ask in advance how I would pay for it; he went ahead and fixed me up when he couldn't contact my parents; he used a reusable suture needle; and the pain of stitching up without an anesthetic it turns out is no worse than a tight pinch.
Recently I went to a VA hospital to have a weeny mole removed. A gown was produced which I was told to put on; 2 surgeons participated; a large sterilized package of sissors, needles and clamps was opened, a needle and a pr of sissors were removed and the rest tossed in the trash can; the gown was thrown away; the paperwork took 2 people 30 minutes; 6 stitches were preceded by several shots of local anesthetic; and an antibiotic was prescribed just in case.
I think litigation is partly due to this over-abundance of caution. But also, it seems that doctors and hospitals try to fatten their fees by pushing their procedures out beyond what is necessary.
Good point.Toyota USA is non union. So is Honda. The health care bennies are comparable. The only difference is that the big 3 have to deal with older workers and their health problems, something that the foreign companies won't have to do for some time.
A lot do; a lot don't; some can't. Lower price and easy financing is a big motivation for lower income buyers.Toyotas cost more than Fords.
Toyotas outsell Fords.
Toyotas are better quality.
People will pay more money for a good product.
How does she like it? Has it got balls? Pretty little thing.Wife has a 2007 FJ Cruiser
Last edited by JAD_333; 03 Jun 07, at 22:23.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
I liked the older cruisers as they were tanks for off road usage and scratches/dents were "character marks". The late 90's-2000+ models were too pretty, cushy, and expensive to take off the pavement. The new fj cruiser looks to be a nice all around vehicle.
As for healthcare. The U.S. has the most expensive, but arguably, not the best in the world. We need to make it more efficient, and we need to get the FDA to do its job when it comes to testing drugs, suppliments and the like. Unfortunately the FDA is run by the friends of the pharmacutical companies so everything is geared to making ALL ailments a type of disease that only a pill made from a drug company can "cure" the problem. (whatever did mankind do the centuries before the pharmicutical companies took over congress?) What we are finding is that one wonder pill that claims to cure your one malody, actually creats two or more problems that can only be fixed by taking these other pills, and so on, and so on.... Then we wake up to a fist full of pills morning, noon, and night. The drug companies get rich, RX cost goes through the roof, and we only get sicker. Lets not forget that quite a few of these drugs, fully approved by the FDA outright killed many people before being taken off the market. Has any one cared to read the side effects of RX medicine? Good grief.
Suppliments are mostly ignored by the FDA, ie, little or no testing, so they can claim all kinds of things as as long as they have the FDA disclaimer. The FDA should test everything and if it does as advertised, great! If not then nail the manufacturer for false advertizing. In the mean time people are intelletually, "groping in the dark" while they take this and that for whatever ails them in the hopes that something does what it was advertized to do.
The FDA has also completely failed us when it comes to our food supply, which is another source of disease and ailments that drives up healthcare.
On the note of lawsuits, Oregon is trying to get an anti frivolus lawsuit on the fall ballot that would punish those who file with out a good reason (this includes the lawyer and the client). The wailing and knashing of teeth you hear is from the lawyers who are prophicizing the end of the world if this measure gets approved.
well, price of imports sometimes is higher, but it isn,t so staight forward, i lease my car, its sticker price is 22g, i shopped around before getting honda, all other cars i looked at that cost the same to buy outright, would cost more than honda, to lease,why? cuz residual value after lease of all other cars are lower than honda, so, even huyndai that was 19g cost 350 a mounth, while honda that costs 22g is 270 a mounth to lease.
I have either a K&N or an Amsoil filter in each of my vehicles. The only time I would use a paper filter is when I am running on a particularly dusty trail when 4X4, then the good filter goes on when I hit the pavement.
My Ford is a 83 Bronco. Carburated with a msd ignition. It has been fairly easy to fix, though I am going to replace the 302 with a 351 as soon as I get the money. Given the choice of plunking down $30,000 for a new truck, which I wont be able to work on and it does not have the moter I want, or 2500 for a new moter for the bronco, which I can fix a good portion of problems if/when they arise is an easy choice.
It has plenty of get up and go and we have had no problems taking it on the beach. Handles better than the 02 4 runner we use to have.
Its wider, she doesn't like that. Has a wicked blind spot, and the roof rack whistles sometime. But its fun to drive, has plenty of room for beach supplies and kids. Would have preferred a 4 door version.
I have a neighbor that has a old 1978 Land Cruiser. I couldn't pry it from him. I half jokingly offered to straight trade his for mine. I don't take mine off road. Thats what I have the T-100 for. Something deep down just won't let me take a vehicle that cost as much as my first house down a 2 track.
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
I'll also bet that he didn't have to worry about your parents suing him for everything he had for "Substandard" treatment that could have crippled you for the rest of your life or for the mental anguish/trama that you suffered from him not numbing you up. Or performing treatment on their child without their consent. Or giving treatment that is inconsistant with their religous beliefs and on and on and on....
I don't know. back in 84 I took a little break from the Corps. Had a job as a EMT. More than once, as I was bringing a patient into the ER, I've had a family member go straight to the doctor on duty and ask if I did everything right because they planned to sue me if I wasn't 100% by the book.Recently I went to a VA hospital to have a weeny mole removed. A gown was produced which I was told to put on; 2 surgeons participated; a large sterilized package of sissors, needles and clamps was opened, a needle and a pr of sissors were removed and the rest tossed in the trash can; the gown was thrown away; the paperwork took 2 people 30 minutes; 6 stitches were preceded by several shots of local anesthetic; and an antibiotic was prescribed just in case.
I think litigation is partly due to this over-abundance of caution. But also, it seems that doctors and hospitals try to fatten their fees by pushing their procedures out beyond what is necessary.
We were also required to change out bandage packs if they had been opened on a run. And the patent got charged for it. SO if I needed 3 4X4 gauze pads to clean up your wound, It had to come from an unopened box and when I was done, the box had to be thrown away. Guess who payed for it? Why did we have to do it? Because if you came down with an infection later, you could not claim it was our fault for using an opened package of gauze that introduced the infection to you. Same procedures when working in the ER.
I'm on the side of the drug companies, for the most part, on this. They cannot test for everything. A study conducted on 5000 people isn't going to catch every reaction. Another problem are the doctors. I took Vioxx, best thing since sliced bread for me. Some guy that had already had 1 heart attack was proscribed it, had another one and blamed the Vioxx. The Doc should have known better. But instaed of telling Doctors to tighten up on their proscriptions the drug was pulled from the market. Now I cannot use a drug that actually worked, No Doc will give me a Cox-2 inhibitor like Celebrex
because I need it "Long term" so I'm back to eating Motrin like it was candy.
Read the warnings on aspirin sometime if you want to get scared
On the subject of lawyers:
A guy walks into a bar, orders a drink and screams, "All lawyers are a s s holes."
a guy at the end of the bar yells back " I resent that remark!"
The first guys asks, "Why, you a lawyer?"
The man replies, "No, I'm an a s s hole"
:biggrin
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
You have to find another way. No pain reliever is ment to taken long term and your liver will have to pay the price. Pharmacutical companies want to be your only choice and they, with the help of the FDA have made it extreemly difficult for you to explore other options.
[QUOTE=Gun Grape;378870]I'll also bet that he didn't have to worry about your parents suing him for everything he had for "Substandard" treatment that could have crippled you for the rest of your life or for the mental anguish/trama that you suffered from him not numbing you up. Or performing treatment on their child without their consent. Or giving treatment that is inconsistant with their religous beliefs and on and on and on....
I don't know. back in 84 I took a little break from the Corps. Had a job as a EMT. More than once, as I was bringing a patient into the ER, I've had a family member go straight to the doctor on duty and ask if I did everything right because they planned to sue me if I wasn't 100% by the book.
I had an American surgeon friend who was at the very forefront of heart/lung swaps in its early days. He is now working as a family doctor after being sued for $500,000 by the wife of a patient. What did he do wrong? His heinous crime was in reply to the question "When will my husband be able to leave hospital?" He said " If he continues to improve at his present rate he should be home by a certain day". The patient took longer than that to get released for some reason and the wife promptly sued for 'grief and anguish' and I don't know what else. The amount my friend had to pay in increased insurance meant that it was financially disadvantageous for him to remain a surgeon and reluctantly he had to leave that hospital and return to general practice. What a waste of talent. What disgusting greed on the part of the wife and her lawyers.
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.
Many doctors have been sued out of existance for basically nothing and that is dead wrong. Unfortunately many other doctors have been guilty of gross negligence and have been protected by the the AMA good ol' boy syndrome which is equally wrong. The bottom like is that if a doctor is good, everyone should stand behind him. If he is not so good, he should be forced to either improve, or find something else to do befor he causes further harm. Too often bad doctors are still "practicing" (a word that bothers me when my health is concerned) because his colleages keep silent, or because there just are not enough doctors to go around.
As for your example Glyn, whether the patient goes home on Monday or Friday is irrelevent to the fact that he is still alive after such a surgery. If he botched the job (showed up to the ER drunk, forgot to reattach an artery, left early to make his golf tee time, etc) then a lawsuit is warrented.
Unfortunately, situations such as this is what we all have to put up with when we have way too many lawyers looking for work and to few doctors to go around.
I think I read somewhere that there are more lawyers in America than any other country - or several combinations of countries added together. Why does the USA think it needs so many, and why are the law schools still churning them out in such numbers?
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.
cuz in us more than anywhere else, if someone makes money, another guy will not think how to make money himself, but how to rob someone who has, and most lawers seems to do just that legaly.
Omon beat me to it - but, it does come down to money on both ends Glyn.
This is my ride, which recently starred on Jihad My Ride.
My friend Ahmadinejad is standing next to it.
Last edited by Indirect Fire; 05 Jun 07, at 03:06.
I have no idea what I'm doing. Honestly!
Well the other options are hip and knee replacment. I'm a bit young for that. However, now that I'm not out playing in the woods, I've gone down from 9-12 800mg Motrin per day to taking 2 per day a few days per month.
The AF doctors freaked when they saw that I had been doing so much Hump Candy for more than 5 years.
They really freaked when I told them Breakfast always consisted of 3 Motrin, 2 cups of black coffee and a Marlboro. But after tons of test I came back with no liver or stomach damage. I attribute that to Hot Sauce. The Nector of the Gods
After Cox2 inhibitors fell out of favor the AF docs refused prescribing more than 800mg of Motrin per day , they want to give me narcotics instead.
The Navy hands it out in sandwich bags.
I've found that the VA will also prescribe it as a year long prescription but only at 2 per day dose. Thats me, an ibuprofen junkie
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
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