gays.. good or bad?

[donnie]

Originally Posted by Ziska

Are any of you familiar with the doctrine of predestination?

i dont believe in predestination, we have free-will, how can we have free will and be predestin? cant.

God knows the millions of possible outcomes of a million different choices that we are faced with everyday, but each of those choices are ours to make.

[Fonnicker]

I like to think of god as the "Indifferent Initiator". He got the ball rolling and walked away, leaving what we do with it up to us. Well, that didn't turn out so well now did it?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Fonnicker

I like to think of god as the "Indifferent Initiator". He got the ball rolling and walked away, leaving what we do with it up to us. Well, that didn't turn out so well now did it?

He did get the ball rolling, however when God sent Jesus to round up the Jews, Jesus found something that he was not seeking, that there were more faithful believers than the Jews, hence, the Christians. Jesus talked with/wrestled with God about this fervently. For these believers, to be acknowledged, and seen in the eyes of God, just as the Jews, Jesus had to die for them, which chose his destiny.

Did it turn out so well? It is up to us really, since my teachings and interpretations in the Bible say that the world will end when there are no more believers in the God Almighty on the face of this earth.

[Trooth]

Originally Posted by Julie

Did it turn out so well? It is up to us really, since my teachings and interpretations in the Bible say that the world will end when there are no more believers in the God Almighty on the face of this earth.

Oh great. So the whole universe created purely so some of us can satisfy His ego by praising him all the time. But if we stop he takes his ball home and we can't play anymore?

[Samudra]

Reading Ziska, me was remined of a inter-college debate which i took part in , and there were two girls who argued for "pre-destination" , Me and my buddy for "Free Will"...The girls were both xtian and were educated in a college run by a (in)famous xtian missionary.I won the debate.

Dont be surprised,what ziska has talked here , the girls talked there.ABSOLUTELY the same points.All us , must understand god is something we cannot imagine and describe.It simply beats us.

Read this paper on hinduism , by Vivekananda...could answer some questions for some people here...Explains the idea of a "GOD"

Off late , i have adopted religious doctrines like , "Be Good , Do Good" , "To help my fellow man , that is all i seek".

[Fonnicker]

Off late , i have adopted religious doctrines like , "Be Good , Do Good" , "To help my fellow man , that is all i seek"

That is right on the money. The greatest spiritual minds all agree that this is the key point. Cast away your fundamentalist ideologies and your adherance to rules and laws that reign specific over your particular sect and focus instead on the art of humanitarianism. You will only be rewarded for doing so. If you believe that God will damn you for it, then ask yourself if He/She/It is a just God. I believe that a God who acts in such a way is a God that I care not to adore and I would welcome Hell. After all, if this is the measure of a person then it is in Hell where the greatest of people are destined.

[donnie]

Originally Posted by Fonnicker

That is right on the money. The greatest spiritual minds all agree that this is the key point. Cast away your fundamentalist ideologies and your adherance to rules and laws that reign specific over your particular sect and focus instead on the art of humanitarianism. You will only be rewarded for doing so. If you believe that God will damn you for it, then ask yourself if He/She/It is a just God. I believe that a God who acts in such a way is a God that I care not to adore and I would welcome Hell. After all, if this is the measure of a person then it is in Hell where the greatest of people are destined.

everyone is saved by the GRACE of god, there is no law anymore, unless you choose the law over Grace, all you need to do is follow those principles in which you believe, be good, do good, and you will be fine.

[Trooth]

What are the Bible's views regarding the age of Mary and thus her suitablility to be made pregnant and the lessons that should be taught to girls/women by the behaviour of God?

[Kipruss]

Fonniker, where did that quote come from (post 81)? It is my view also (except for the hell bit, lol - if there are hot pokers to be inserted anywhere, I don't care if Socrates is beside me!).

[donnie]

Originally Posted by Trooth

What are the Bible's views regarding the age of Mary and thus her suitablility to be made pregnant and the lessons that should be taught to girls/women by the behaviour of God?

the bible doesnt say how old mary is, the tradition of the time would have been around 12 1/2 or so, but there is nothing to truely indicate her age, just that she was betrothed to joseph, and there is no real time frame set up between the bretrothing and the birth. so she could have been 13 1/2 or 18 1/2 or older, not likley younger. most experts put her between 15 and 18 at the birth of jesus.

not sure there is a lesson to be taught in the BIBLE, since the actual age is never given. i do believe that hebrew scripture puts betrothing at age 12 1/2 or so. but i never studied hebrew laws and customs.

[porsteamboy]

Originally Posted by Ziska

I don't have my bible out here at uni, but Paul condemmns the practice several times in his epistles.

What some people forget is that homosexuality was more prevalent in the time of paul than it is now (in western society). Members of the church at Corinth were gay, and paul told them the right of it in no uncertain terms.

I'll get you the bible verses early next week confed.

Anyway, if gay people did just keep it to themselves, noone would know about it. But they insist on having disgusting 'gay pride' marches (like the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras) and so on.

And you can't just pick and choose with the Bible. Either you believe it all, or you just admit that you belifs rise from yourself.

Or from reasoning!

[Confed999]

Originally Posted by porsteamboy

Or from reasoning!

That would be the "beliefs rise from yourself" part.

[Fonnicker]

Originally Posted by Kipruss

Fonniker, where did that quote come from (post 81)? It is my view also (except for the hell bit, lol - if there are hot pokers to be inserted anywhere, I don't care if Socrates is beside me!).

It's my original heretic thought Of course, without getting too deep...there are no original thoughts (Jungian collective unconscious theories) Everything said after Plato is a footnote, right? I don't believe in hell any more than I believe in Heaven. Only saying that if there is a heavan where good and just people are turned away simply because they do not worship "Jesus Christ" by that name, well, turn me away too. The party is kickin in hell and the dj is spinning a wicked tune!

[Confed999]

Originally Posted by Fonnicker

The party is kickin in hell and the dj is spinning a wicked tune!

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." Samuel Clemens, AKA Mark Twain

[Fonnicker]

Originally Posted by Confed999

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." Samuel Clemens, AKA Mark Twain

Hey confed, something we can agree on!