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Reply With QuoteCivilizations don't die by murder, but by suicide.
It's not Osama; we're beating the stuffin' outta him and his clown act, despite the best efforts of half of us to lose even THAT one. It's US I'm worried about.
i have nothing but utter confidence that we will win. the incompetents cannot even topple one of their own highly-unpopular leaders. they have no political plan past a vague "one day, there will be worldwide islam". they have no economic plan (not that they would have one, because their propaganda runs counter to what makes an economy thrive). their own popularity when they DO organize into political parties is pathetically low, even in their own countries. communism was a far, far, far greater threat in every one of those areas. and look where communism is now.
6 years after 9-11, what has bin ladin done? he has thrown out a tape, a tape with a script written by a former loser of a californian. his organization has gone from a centralized organization into a million decentralized cells, producing incompetent terrorists whom are more concerned with saving their own skins than attacks. to the extent that AQ has had success, it is as bluesman says due to our own errors: and even then, they have over-stepped it, not only by declaring war on the shi'a but even disgusting their own sunni brethren.
in fact, even if we WERE to run from iraq, what would happen would not be AQ victory, but the spectacle of watching the shi'a massacre AQI (but also, much more unfortunately, the rest of the sunni population).
every day our economy grows, and we gain still more abilities which AQ does not have. the global economy not only ignored 9-11, it has expanded at the fastest pace in all of human history. the terrorists have gotten nowhere.
we simply cannot lose. this is not complacency but the truth. the terrorists tried a sucker punch while we were not watching, got it in, only to watch the US shrug it off and grow at a faster pace than ever.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
Civilizations don't die by murder, but by suicide.
It's not Osama; we're beating the stuffin' outta him and his clown act, despite the best efforts of half of us to lose even THAT one. It's US I'm worried about.
Last edited by Bluesman; 13 Sep 07, at 20:04.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
See, THIS is what I'm talking about: nobody sees what I'm seeing. What I'm talking about is that nobody understands what I'm talking about!
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Originally Posted by Bluesman
For those not paying any attention. Those accomplices to the murder/suicide taking place in this nation by, 'Islam' (Murder) and by, 'The Left'
(suicide), and those not paying any attention, 'the useful idiot's'.
Bluesman: Civilizations don't die by murder, but by suicide.
Ivan
In the end, all the Jihadis have is numbers and fanaticism. We have science, reason, real allies, and in the end, should it come to that, righteous anger.
-dale
There is something called the Theory of Vertical Progression. I've mentioned it earlier. To explain it briefly: after a certain point, a great civilisation starts to relativate everything (like we do), their high moral grounds become detached from reality (as in: the terrorists have rights), and the civilisation becomes unable to resist. Add nihilistic thoughts, and the greatest empire can be brought back by bearded barbarians with an idea. Happened to Rome before...
Reason is what is killing Europe. People thing in patterns like "who knows, perhaps their culture is the right one and we are wrong, we have done them a lot of wrong by colonizing them and the like, and we cannot use violence because it is morally wrong".
I understand that your anger and concern is about the Nancy Pelosis and Harry Reids moreso than Mohammed the car bomber. I get that, I really do.
And I share your concerns and anger. But I think that the cancer that the Dems now represent is treatable however, in my opinion. Maybe we missed the mammogram and let it get big enough that we're gonna have to go Amazon on the deal and lose a lot of fatty tissue, but I don't see us as in late-stage yet.
The new Information Age lets the Lefty nutbags scream louder and into more ears, but at the same time well-reasoned moderates and conservatives are finding their voice. We can push back just as hard as the Commies push us.
-dale
You misunderstand my use of the word "reason". I mean it, not in the "whitey sucks" post-modern self-loathing sense that the left peddles, but rather in the "hm, this person enjoys strapping bombs to retarded children - reason tells me to drop a JDAM on his house" sense.
For instance, someone is one step closer to gamma-ray lasers, and it ain't Johnny Mohammed.
"A gamma-ray laser is the kind of thing that if it existed people would find new uses for it everyday," said Dr Cassidy.
-dale
Entropy,
Right on!
The movers and shakers in the effort to keep civilization intacked become marginalised by the Insane that tear at its foundation.
What do you do?
1. Marginalise the Insane.......
2. Bring suit to all their Insane institutions as they have brought suit to the bulworks of freedoms foundations and institutions.
3. Hit them more, Hit them harder.
4. Don't give up until you prevail.
5. Keep up the fight
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."
Ivan
If there is any good that came out of 9/11, it's that this has finally come to pass:
A 9/11-style attack using airliners has an extremely small chance of happening now.So the next time it happens, Americans have a choice: they can follow FAA guidelines – or they can say screw ’em and their worthless assurances, and rush forward to overpower the fanatics, even if the FAA has seen to it they’ve nothing to charge them with except the rubber chicken.
9/11 was a one-shot deal.
They got in a good shot. No question about that.
It could have been even bigger, but even in partial success, those inhuman swine managed to virtually duplicate Pearl Harbor.
But in all likelihood, it'll never happen again.
What has happened on every post-9/11 flight where a passenger has started to even act up and get a little crazy?
Every other passenger within grabbing distance has dogpiled on them, beat them to a pulp and tied them up like a calf at a rodeo.
Never again will a plane full of passengers sit idly by while a group of thugs - Islamic or otherwise - attempt to do more than order a Coke.
They won't sit still passive and meek, not for one minute, not for one second.
They'll gladly lay their lives down and sacrifice the entire plane to ensure that it is not used as a manned cruise missile against potentially thousands of people on the ground.
Flight 93 showed what was possible and their heroism has been emulated by others.
That's something to be proud of.
Damn straight. Not happening on MY flight.
-dale
Geez, blues. You are in a turmoil!Bingo. You got it.
It's MY side I'm angriest at, or at least they SHOULD be on my side, but they're not.
I'm angry because I know history, and I see it playing out so clearly in front of me. I see the same sort of appeasement mindset of the British in '39; I see a public that believes so many falsehoods and untruths, and are willing to believe the worst about their own country, and the best of their enemies.
It's almost impossible for me to express it, because there is so much WRONG with what's going on today. I am literally overwhelmed by the things I see everyday that is so 180-out from reality.
I've tried, really tried, to see the other point-of-view, and I'm as introspective as you can dam' well get, without being a total neurotic. But this is SO CLEAR to me, and I know down deep that I'm not wrong, but the rest of the world IS, about so many, many things.
Some of the sheer idiocy I've seen on this board from seemingly-intelligent people have made me question what I think. But I keep coming back to the same conclusion: the world is upside down; only I and a few like me are right-side up.
Now, that makes one question whether things really are as one perceives them, but some of it is SO dam' clear, so OBVIOUS, and THAT, RIGHT THERE, is what's made me so goddam' ANGRY.
There is NO EXCUSE for seemingly-intelligent people believing some of the so-obviously-wrong things that they believe.
I am in a terrible state-of-mind these days, because there are many reasons to be fretful about where we're headed as a civilization faced with an existential challenge, and almost no reason to have faith that we'll meet it. I think those of us that just BELIEVE everything is going to be alright are going off of FAITH, and frankly, I don't see in our People exactly what the wellspring of that faith IS. We're FAILING. And this civilization, like any other, has no 'right' to exist, if it will not do what it must to survive.
We all believe that we live in the best available societal organizational model that has been tried up to this point, as far as providing for the Heirarchy of Needs. But that does NOT speak to its ability to survive an external threat, and in my opinion, the first may even preclude the second. We're fat, dumb and happy, and that is NOT the state one needs to be in in order to survive an attack.
Well, we are under attack, and so many of us are so somnolent as to not notice, or have reached the wrong conclusions about its nature, because believing something false is easier than facing up to the reality.
We're in TROUBLE. Most of the reason for that is not our enemies' competence, but our own lack of will to defend what is valuable. There is nothing, Nothing NOTHING, NOTHING as important as human will in contests like this, and on our side, it can't be found, unless under the medal racks of men that seek to defend the very people that slander them and seek to frustrate their efforts. Our enemies have nothing but willpower, and that will probably be more than enough, because this conflict is simply not about weapons...it's about the desire to impose one's will. We ain't got it; they DO.
So, lately, I've been noticing more and more and more of the signs that Osama is correct about us, and we have no dam' idea what makes HIM tick. One of the things that sets me off more than anything is the 'These Colors Never Run' tee-shirts and bumper stickers. Oh, they're better than their peace symbol analogs (which ALSO provokes the hell outta me!
The same redneck idiots that wear that shirt think Osama lives in fear of us or his own death. He doesn't. And I imagine him, hiding out somewhere, watching us screw ourselves over, again and again and again, while we play political games, and he plots our deaths. We can't even do the common-sense things that are so obvious without fighting ourselves about the most mundane, unimportant details...and in the end, some half-measure that simply won't help is adopted and we move on to the next issue that shouldn't even BE an issue.
I believe we're going to lose the war, because we have no will to win it, or even believe there IS one. It doesn't have to be like that, but then again, there is no law written in the cosmos that says because we're RIGHT, we'll win, just because...well, we SHOULD. Victory will go to the side that maintains its will to impose that will on the other side, because, in the end, it's Jungle Law, and whoever tried harder 'deserved' the win.
We're not trying, and that's what's making me angry.Not without reason. I feel like you do sometimes. Supporting a war is very trying for me. It's all I can do to stay focused on the nature of the struggle when I know people are dying. Where does it end; what will it cost us in money and national unity? Is it worth the sacrifice to remain number one in the world?
One thing is sure we're not going to win anyone to our POV by beating them
over the head or mocking them. Some people you can never win over, at least not until the terror touches them. For the rest, patience and unassailable reason works best, if it works at all. Nothing hardens a proud opponent more than a personal attack. Pride doesn't know from right and wrong.Ease up, my friend; good people can disagree.
OBL? Is he right about the moral state of the US? Sure, things could be better; but they can always be better. Whores visited Valley Forge.Is he right about our preoccupation with money and material things? Yeah, we like to shop. But are shoppers willing to kill a child for money, power or God? No; but OBL is. He's wrong about us; he doesn't understand us at all. How can he, when what passes for understanding in his brain justifies killing innocent people, even his own kind?
But back to the thread.
I guess you saw that the demleadership is going to take the middle way on Iraq and not press for disabling legislation. It will be interesting to see how they explain this to their more vehement anti-war supporters. I have no illusions that they are wiggling over to our side.
There's a political dynamic behind the course they've chosen. The election is still 14 months away, and there's not much they can do about Iraq until afterwards. So, it appears they're going to hedge their bets and decide next fall how to play it: If the situation in Iraq then has improved significantly, they can say "see, we backed the President this past year, aren't we great, but elect us anyway and this won't happen again." But if the situation isn't any better, they can say, "we backed the President (the Republicans) this past year, and he failed; it's time to get out of Iraq, and we promise that, if elected, we will get Amercia out." There's no escaping politics.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
Wars should be different.
-dale
This one, yes.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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