Is the world getting better?

[glyn]

Originally Posted by Parihaka

You edited it but left ain't in there

Alright, who are you and what have you done with the real Glyn

Ah, but would this retired and humble spear-carrier have dared to correct the spelling or grammar of one of our glorious moderators? Heavens forfend

[Feanor]

Makes sense that if they're going to live in the country they need to speak the language. I'd assume this is a basic safety precaution against cultural assimilation of the native population in waves of immigrants.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by gunnut

Heh...like everywhere in the world.

I did not demand Europeans to give me a special treatment - I saw how it is done here, and I did like them.
I would never ever ask for more Russians to be on TV, in commercial magazines (you know, the multicultural happy kids in IKEA magazines). I would even feel uncomfortable if it happened.
I analyzed Western values, and in fact I like them. I can understand that not everyone likes everything, but they can respect them at least.
I never ever thought about calling Western habits inferior, Western women whorish, and Westerners corrupt. If I would be Orthodox, I would quietly ask for a church.

There is a Russian saying: don't visit another house with your own samovar.

If I can do something, the others can do it too, Muslim or not.

[JAD_333]

Originally Posted by chankya

The problem is this. As long as the immigrant is a legal immigrant, then as a citizen he shares the same rights and responsibilities as you. As such then what he/she is asking for, say ballot papers in Chinese, is not so much special privilege as equal access.

Edit: And I have as usual started side-tracking the main thread.

The problem is you're confused between immigrant and citizen. Think "resident alien" and "citizen" instead. Immigrant is not a legal status because it may include both. I am a citizen and an immigrant. BTW, because of the latter I cannot become president of the US. Nice to have an excuse.

[chankya]

Originally Posted by JAD_333

The problem is you're confused between immigrant and citizen. Think "resident alien" and "citizen" instead. Immigrant is not a legal status because it may include both. I am a citizen and an immigrant. BTW, because of the latter I cannot become president of the US. Nice to have an excuse.

I was actually talking about immigrant citizens like you. I was specifically thinking about the ballot papers when I was writing. It probably extends into education in Spanish (The children of even illegal immigrants, if born in the US, would be US citizens.)

The resident aliens would be in the green card program. (is that accurate?) I wasn't thinking of them as a category at all because I've always assumed there aren't very many of them.

[chankya]

Originally Posted by gunnut

That is the argument for the Voting Rights Act.

However, to become a citizen of this nation, and every nation on this earth, I suspect, one has to be proficient in the main operation language of that nation.

I don't expect to become a French citizen while not being proficient in French, then demand to participate in local elections using my native tongue.

I know for a fact that one has to be proficient in Danish to become a citizen of Denmark. The Danes may go as far as demanding new immigrants be proficient in Danish even if they have no intention of becoming citizens.

You do have a point there. I suppose the real problem is with illegal immigrants becoming citizens. (Kids born in the US and such). I'm not sure but I think(I'm not certain) that for legal immigration you probably do need English proficiency and they are probably more driven individuals in any case so they are unlikely to be a SS burden.

[JAD_333]

Originally Posted by chankya

I was actually talking about immigrant citizens like you. I was specifically thinking about the ballot papers when I was writing. It probably extends into education in Spanish (The children of even illegal immigrants, if born in the US, would be US citizens.)

What do you mean by ballot papers?

The resident aliens would be in the green card program. (is that accurate?) I wasn't thinking of them as a category at all because I've always assumed there aren't very many of them.

Correct for permanent residents. I don't know how many green carders there are, but it's not uncommon.

[chankya]

Originally Posted by JAD_333

What do you mean by ballot papers?

I meant the voting ballots with candidate name and such. I'm also given to understand that you voters get to vote on certain "propositions" directly as a means of bypassing a hostile legislature.

In any case I don't really have an answer. I was just laying out a possible argument for the availability of these services/rights(voting ballots, drivers test, education) in various languages.

[Zeng]

Originally Posted by gunnut

I don't mean multiculturalism is bad. I mean we should be very careful about how we implement multiculturalism.

It's good to have many different people bring their cultures to this wonderful land. But the new comers must also respect those who are already here.

All government documents and proceedings should be conducted in English only. All voting ballots should be printed in English only. Driving tests should be administered in English. All classes other than foreign language classes should be conducted in English in public schools.

As of right now, we have the so called bilingual education that educates immigrants, a vast majority of them Mexicans, in Spanish. This is done in our public schools. Our voting ballots are printed in other languages. All you have to do is ask and you can vote for government officials in the United States using Spanish/Vietnamese/Chinese or any number of popular languages. You can take our driver's test in a foreign language.

I don't mind immigrants celebrate their own culture on their own time. I have a problem with immigrants bringing their culture into the public using tax dollars.

Have you heard this new one? Some universities now have "footwash basin" for the muslim students. An elementary school in San Diego pauses class 15 min everyday so the muslim students can pray.

I have no problem with muslims in this country. I have a problem when they demand special treatment.

Thanks for clarifying your opinion and I agree with most of them now.

The bilingual education or even signal minority language education (Chinese is just one language class) are provided in China today for most minority living areas. If China stops the practice, I am sure that US will accuse China for violating the human right of Chinese minorities.

I think that the ordinary new immigrants need to pass some English and America history/knowledge tests to become US permanent residents (Green Card) and citizen today, but not sure how difficult those tests are.

[Zeng]

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Correct, so far...

This wasn't true nationwide.

As far as I know there have never been any Federal laws requiring Chinese Americans citizens to live in certain areas. There might have been some early territorial laws; perhaps in California. But generally, Chinese Americans could buy a house wherever they wanted to. Where discrimination existed it was subtle.

It was done by writing it into land deeds in the form of restrictive covenants. These covenants controlled what owners could do with their property, for example who they could sell it to. For example a covenant might say the owner could sell only to a Christian American caucasian. That eliminated hispanics, blacks, Jews, Chinese and Native americans, buddists, all immigrants, etc., etc. This kind of covenant was somewhat common in upscale neighborhoods.

My mother, now 97 and still giving me hell, was a real estate broker from the mid-1940s in Washington, DC., --and by the way, an immigrant to the US-- tried unsucessfully several times to get around restrictive covenants in the 1950s and finally succeeded in 1964 when the courts stopped honoring them.

I checked the history of Chinese immigrant again and found that you are correct that there were not Federal laws restricting Chinese Americans buying house outside of Chinatown.

But there were Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and Immigration Act of 1924 discriminating against Chinese as well as other Asian immigrant groups. Those Acts created beyond subtle discrimination.

I cite a paragraph from the link below:

The Chinese-American Experience: An Introduction

Under the racist slogan, "Chinese must go!" an anti-Chinese movement emerged that worked assiduously to deprive the Chinese of a means of making a living in the general economy. The movement’s goal was to drive them out of the country. This hostility hindered efforts by the Chinese to become American. It forced them to flee to the Chinatowns on the coasts, where they found safety and support. In these ghettos, they managed to eke out a meager existence, but were isolated from the rest of the population, making it difficult if not impossible to assimilate into mainstream society. To add insult to injury, Chinese were criticized for their alleged unassimilability.


I would like to acknowledge the fact that subtle race discrimination may still exist today but I don’t clearly feel it in my daily life and work place although I am a foreigner. My colleagues and neighbors are all very nice people.

[JAD_333]

Originally Posted by Zeng_xinren

I checked the history of Chinese immigrant again and found that you are correct that there were not Federal laws restricting Chinese Americans buying house outside of Chinatown.

But there were Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and Immigration Act of 1924 discriminating against Chinese as well as other Asian immigrant groups. Those Acts created beyond subtle discrimination.

There was some Chinaphobia, to coin a term, back then. A different mindset on account of racial fears no doubt. Not a shining example of our immigrant heritage.

The Chinatowns started well before the 1880s. As I heard it, Chinese were brought here originally by the railroads starting in the mid-1800s to work as laborers because the gold rush drained off American labor. The Chinese were told they could make a fortune here and many planned to come, earn a lot of money and then go back home and buy land. That's why they held on to their customs and language, and didn't try to assimilate. Chinatowns were the natural result.

I would like to acknowledge the fact that subtle race discrimination may still exist today but I don’t clearly feel it in my daily life and work place although I am a foreigner. My colleagues and neighbors are all very nice people.

That's good to hear.

[xrough]

I voted for improving materially but deteriorating/stgnating morally..

[joken gonzo]

welll no the world if anything is due for another world war which will happen i dont think in this generation but probaly the next 1 theres too much hostilties going around chinas growing and if people think the kwans are gonna be peaceful lol ur sadly wrong once america stops being number 1 the chinese will be able to throw their weight around the middle east is just a freaking hotbed ready to explode and irans supposed civil nuclear progam which we all know is really for weapons use will spark that war so my prediction

the usa engaed in the middle east with isareal against iran and about every other muslim there

china vs the eu over who gets to be top dawg

[Kansas Bear]

Originally Posted by joken gonzo

welll no the world if anything is due for another world war which will happen i dont think in this generation but probaly the next 1 theres too much hostilties going around chinas growing and if people think the kwans are gonna be peaceful lol ur sadly wrong once america stops being number 1 the chinese will be able to throw their weight around the middle east is just a freaking hotbed ready to explode and irans supposed civil nuclear progam which we all know is really for weapons use will spark that war so my prediction

wow, a prediction.

the usa engaed in the middle east with isareal against iran and about every other muslim there

Whilst you are so zealous in your 'predictions', go buy a dictionary, cause..........damn.

[gunnut]

Originally Posted by entropy

I did not demand Europeans to give me a special treatment - I saw how it is done here, and I did like them.
I would never ever ask for more Russians to be on TV, in commercial magazines (you know, the multicultural happy kids in IKEA magazines). I would even feel uncomfortable if it happened.
I analyzed Western values, and in fact I like them. I can understand that not everyone likes everything, but they can respect them at least.
I never ever thought about calling Western habits inferior, Western women whorish, and Westerners corrupt. If I would be Orthodox, I would quietly ask for a church.

There is a Russian saying: don't visit another house with your own samovar.

If I can do something, the others can do it too, Muslim or not.

I meant no offense. I meant that there are muslims all over the world, in non-muslim countries, demanding special treatment. I didn't mean that all muslims demand such things or all immigrants demand such things.