Is the world getting better?

[entropy]

Gentlemen,

How was the youth in your day? My fellow youngsters only have one motto: "I don't care".

Well, sometimes they wake up from their apathy (I am not talking about healty Machiavellian apathy here!) and read on a pamphlet that there actually are animals, and that they are being tortured. Suddently the entire world becomes revolved about animal welfare, earth warming, poverty, ...
They know too little to see the big picture, that a stable economy is what solves poverty, and not civil unrest.

Knowledge is evil. You Shall Now Know Too Much. The war in Iraq is evil. They should pull out. No, it would not cause a humanitarian crisis, they should pull out. (that if they actually know that there is a war)
Oh yes, and I don't want to do anything. I don't want to study, there is welfare, I will get a job that could be done by well-trained monkeys and earn some money so that I can smoke pot and watch video games all the time.

This is the youth of my generation. Of course, not all of them. But I see dangerously many clever minds deteriorating, becoming lowly proles just because of lack of motivation and unhealthy apathy. Too many for my liking.

How was it in your days?

[Mekstizzle]

I'm 18 myself. So I've seen alot of people in "my generation" really fall down. Sometimes it's like "look at yourself man, you're pathetic"

Alot of people take the rap/rebel culture too seriously. Whilst i also listen to hip hop and rap over other genres, i don't take it literally. It's just a form of entertainment. That's the main problem with kids these days, they take what they see on TV or in Games literally.

Alot of people I know also have parents who couldn't care less about them, sometimes it's both ways, the kid doesn't care what his/her parents think of them. They just don't care about anything.

I mean, i've met some real slutty girls my age, and I just sometimes feel sorry for their parents, then realise it was, for the most part, their fault in the first place.

It's not about religion and all that either, it just seems people are losing common sense these days too. Not even "street smart" as some people would call themselves.

Not trying to sound all high and mighty, but that's how I think it is for alot of people around my age and especially younger. Not all, there's alot of decent people too.

[entropy]

Glad that you understand me. It's sad, really sad for the people who fought or worked for the freedom of their children to be free to think, dress, love, do whatever they like. The children now don't care.
Freedom and good life is not a thing granted!

Is this the face of humanity we see as it is if it's not molded into shape, of has it always been like this?
If the first is true, then our nice little Western civilization will succumb in a few generations. Who will run it and fight for it if no one cares?

I would like to hear the comments of people of Glyn-like age about the youth in their days. It would really be interesting.

[glyn]

I was born at the beginning of WW2 and grew up during the 1940s. Things were always in short supply, rationing continued into the 1950s. Shop-bought toys were almost unknown. There were plenty of bombed buildings to explore. I didn't see a television (in 405 line black and white on a 12" screen!) until I was in my teens. Children had to be well behaved or they were disciplined. At school caning was common. Most people were poor (in financial terms) but boys tried to look smart and girls tried to look pretty. The cubs and scouts were popular as they had camps to attend in summer. Every scout had a fearsome looking sheath knife, but I don't recall any ever being used as a weapon. The church was still important, and we all made the most of our lives. We knew education offered rewards in the future. We were still a homogenous people as immigration hadn't started. Few people had cars and the vast majority used public transport. Looking back on it, they were good times. Crime was virtually unknown. Nobody had heard of pornography or 'recreational' drugs. Mobile phones, personal computers and the like were all in the future. Everyone was slim. Dear departed days.
I still tend to 'make do and mend', and abhor waste.

[JAD_333]

Glyn.

I was struck by the similarities of your childhood to mine, expect mine were those that were almost, such as exploring bombed out buildings, for I was fortunate enough to "escape" from France via Portugal in 1941 at age 2 with my mother and father, a French air force officer intent on getting back into the war by any means. By 1943, my family had taken up residence just outside Washington, D.C. and my father placed in command of a facility in Oklahoma for French air cadets being trained to take part in the liberation of France. I remember little of this, thought I recall vividly the wailing of firehouse sirens on VE day and people pouring into the streets. From that day on I don't recall by what series of events we ended up as permanent residents of Washington nor why my mother and her 3 children, me included, became citizens of the US. I do remember well growing up in Washingon and every summer being shipped off to the country to entertain myself as best I could in the woods and fields with semi-illiterate country-raised kids, who showed me a thing or two about common sense and making slingshots.
In any case, my childhood was similar to yours. No TV, a sharp rap on the knuckles with a ruler from the good sisters when I misbehaved in school, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, respect for elders and awe of the policemen who walked (yes, walked) their beats in our peaceful neighborhood, few cars and plenty of parking: And no drugs. Neighborhood kids even told the policeman on the beat about a downtown boy who was trying to sell stuff to them. He was arrested forthwith and no more was heard about drugs in general use until the 1960s brought us the love generation, Haight-Asbury, the cool aid acid test, and Timothy Leary, the phyciatrist, Harvard prof, and West Point drop-out gone loony. The 1950s were the grand post-war years despite the Korean War and the school drills in case of nulear attack from the USSR. Cars found a new style, the 1955 Chevy with the wraparound windshield, overhead camshaft V8, which is still a screamer, the Corvette, and the Thunderbird; and at about the same time came rock n'roll, with parents shuddering at its imlications for the morals of us teenagers. Elvis the Pelvis shown from waist up only on the Ed Sullivan show. There I think, began the informal split between parents and children that has lasted until now. What, afterall, was wrong with rock n'roll? I'll skip the rest and only add that distance in time from great wars diminishes the gratitude of those born to those who remember, but I don't find that to be so lamentable or a sign of weakness. I have an 18 year old son (late remarriage) and I see him and his friends preoccupied with cars, girls, beer, and rap, and having little inclination to join the military or to be part of our stuggles in Iraq and Afganistan. But I note their loyalty to each other, their code of honor, their can-do spirit in things small, and I see good raw material should we be attacked in earnest and thrown into a real war of survival. I think it is this way always in history with our young. If the cause is just and the need is great, they will fight, and fight well. I am sure it is the same in the "mother" country. Cheers, Jad

[gunnut]

Wow JAD, I didn't know you came from France. I'll try to limit my French jokes. But no guarantees though. I'll still post one if a good one comes along.

I often tell people that we have too much in this society. People, especially in the US these days, don't know this is not normal. Never in the history of mankind has any group of people have access to so much material with so little effort. It's not shocking that the Hollywood elite who travel abroad are stunned by the lack of material wealth in other parts of the world.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by gunnut

Never in the history of mankind has any group of people have access to so much material with so little effort. It's not shocking that the Hollywood elite who travel abroad are stunned by the lack of material wealth in other parts of the world.

The cyclic law of civilisations is kicking in. Rich people think they need not fight for their freedom or wealth. In the end they cannot fight. So the poor man who has lived a hard time takes over, because he knows how to fight.

[JAD_333]

Originally Posted by gunnut

Wow JAD, I didn't know you came from France. I'll try to limit my French jokes. But no guarantees though. I'll still post one if a good one comes along.

I often tell people that we have too much in this society. People, especially in the US these days, don't know this is not normal. Never in the history of mankind has any group of people have access to so much material with so little effort. It's not shocking that the Hollywood elite who travel abroad are stunned by the lack of material wealth in other parts of the world.

Lol...no problem with the French jokes. I've been here so long that I can't remember not being an American; and I am so saturated with American history that I have more affinity with the English than the French. Besides my mom is Austrian and as you no doubt know, an Austrian has a strong hold on California.

[YellowFever]

Originally Posted by entropy

The world runs in a sine regime.

Civilization gets strong -> civilization gets rich. It gets rich -> it gets fat and defenceless. Defenceless civilization -> barbarians come and invade. Barbarians conquer -> they get strong and rich ...

You just described Europe in a nutshell.



...and to a lesser degree, America.

[glyn]

Originally Posted by YellowFever

You just described Europe in a nutshell.



...and to a lesser degree, America.

To a 'lesser' degree, YellowFever? I think the entire First World can safely be tarred with the same brush.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by glyn

To a 'lesser' degree, YellowFever? I think the entire First World can safely be tarred with the same brush.

Americans don't have this multiculturalism.

[glyn]

Originally Posted by entropy

Americans don't have this multiculturalism.

Explain, please

[crooks]

Originally Posted by entropy

Americans don't have this multiculturalism.

America DOES have the multi-culturalism, much more than we do....and it's a better place for it, we could learn plenty from the "US model" of integration.

[gunnut]

Originally Posted by crooks

America DOES have the multi-culturalism, much more than we do....and it's a better place for it, we could learn plenty from the "US model" of integration.

We have to be very careful with our multiculturalism though. It's slowly becoming the European model where everyone stays in their own enclave and demand the natives to "respect" their culture.

[crooks]

Originally Posted by gunnut

We have to be very careful with our multiculturalism though. It's slowly becoming the European model where everyone stays in their own enclave and demand the natives to "respect" their culture.

True, but America has this great talent - you manage to make people who might come from different cultures, religions (though you've grown dissapointingly bigoted there) and race come together as one and feel a sense of belonging.
Sure you have the nutjobs who claim that you have to be white, Protestant, and descended from England or Scotland to be considered "American", but it's been a long time since anyone from a group like this held major power or was listened to for anything more than a good laugh at they're expence when they've finished.

Europe is almost completely different.
I was surprised when in America that when you talk to a black or Asian person, they ALWAYS describe themselves as "Americans" and it never seemed odd to them.
It wasn't till I came home that I realised why I was suprised - Ireland is homogenous, generally, and in the rare instance that you meet a black or asian person they never describe themselves as "Irish".
"Nigerian" yes, "Korean", yes and "Brazilian", yes, but never do they answer to the place they live.
We're not good at creating integration.
It seems we build barriers, make them feel that you need Celtic blood and links, Gaeilge, a certain "Irish" look and mannerism and of course, you have to be "white" with a thousand traceable years of family heritage.

And we're the "tolerant" Europeans, on the continent, they LOVE the Irish, because we're defineable, and they like that.
It sickens me to no end, we have a lot to learn.

I consider myself pro-US, I favour trans-atlanticism and think that you should be hugely proud of what you've achieved.