View Poll Results: In the long run, is the world getting better? (Please read first post before voting.)

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  • Yes, the world is improving both materially and morally..

    18 17.14%
  • Yes, the world is improving materially but is deteriorating/stagnating morally.

    34 32.38%
  • Yes, the world is improving morally but is deteriorating/stagnating materially.

    2 1.90%
  • No, the world sucks all around.

    26 24.76%
  • Undecided.

    7 6.67%
  • I don't give a rip.

    4 3.81%
  • Nothing changes man, it's all the same trip

    14 13.33%
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Thread: Is the world getting better?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut
    If you ever watch MTV, you'll find the brain-dead youngsters they interview on the show believe race relations is getting worse in the US (since King's death); our air is more polluted; water is nearly undrinkable; earth is getting warmer; poverty and famine around the world is on the march; and the earth will explode by 2075.
    If you've ever read accounts of the turn of the millenia (1000ad) they pretty much thought the same things then as well. They also went around hitting themselves on the head with flat wooden boards as penance so I guess nothings changed much since then

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatsLiberal
    Who made that rule?

    Oh Damn!! That was a question, wasn't it?

    Sh!t...there I went again with the questions, didn't I?

    Oh for crying out loud, why must I keep on with the questions? I am going to have to vote multiple times now, aren't I?
    You should at least vote once, dang you.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by parihaka
    I disagree about the more often statement but certainly there is a greater capacity to kill larger numbers.
    I wonder if there's any studies of deaths from warfare as a percentage of population through history? I must have a look....
    Actually, the odds of dying as a direct or indirect consequence of war is lower now than it has ever been:


    ****
    EXPLAINING 15 YEARS OF DIMINISHING VIOLENCE.
    The End of War?
    by Gregg Easterbrook
    Post date: 05.19.05
    Issue date: 05.30.05


    aily explosions in Iraq, massacres in Sudan, the Koreas staring at each other through artillery barrels, a Hobbesian war of all against all in eastern Congo--combat plagues human society as it has, perhaps, since our distant forebears realized that a tree limb could be used as a club. But here is something you would never guess from watching the news: War has entered a cycle of decline. Combat in Iraq and in a few other places is an exception to a significant global trend that has gone nearly unnoticed--namely that, for about 15 years, there have been steadily fewer armed conflicts worldwide. In fact, it is possible that a person's chance of dying because of war has, in the last decade or more, become the lowest in human history.
    Five years ago, two academics--Monty Marshall, research director at the Center for Global Policy at George Mason University, and Ted Robert Gurr, a professor of government at the University of Maryland--spent months compiling all available data on the frequency and death toll of twentieth-century combat, expecting to find an ever-worsening ledger of blood and destruction. Instead, they found, after the terrible years of World Wars I and II, a global increase in war from the 1960s through the mid-'80s. But this was followed by a steady, nearly uninterrupted decline beginning in 1991. They also found a steady global rise since the mid-'80s in factors that reduce armed conflict--economic prosperity, free elections, stable central governments, better communication, more "peacemaking institutions," and increased international engagement. Marshall and Gurr, along with Deepa Khosla, published their results as a 2001 report, Peace and Conflict, for the Center for International Development and Conflict Management at the University of Maryland. At the time, I remember reading that report and thinking, "Wow, this is one of the hottest things I have ever held in my hands." I expected that evidence of a decline in war would trigger a sensation. Instead it received almost no notice.
    "After the first report came out, we wanted to brief some United Nations officials, but everyone at the United Nations just laughed at us. They could not believe war was declining, because this went against political expectations," Marshall says. Of course, 2001 was the year of September 11. But, despite the battles in Afghanistan, the Philippines, and elsewhere that were ignited by Islamist terrorism and the West's response, a second edition of Peace and Conflict, published in 2003, showed the total number of wars and armed conflicts continued to decline. A third edition of the study, published last week, shows that, despite the invasion of Iraq and other outbreaks of fighting, the overall decline of war continues. This even as the global population keeps rising, which might be expected to lead to more war, not less.
    In his prescient 1989 book, Retreat from Doomsday, Ohio State University political scientist John Mueller, in addition to predicting that the Soviet Union was about to collapse--the Berlin Wall fell just after the book was published--declared that great-nation war had become "obsolete" and might never occur again. One reason the Soviet Union was about to collapse, Mueller wrote, was that its leaders had structured Soviet society around the eighteenth-century assumption of endless great-power fighting, but great-power war had become archaic, and no society with war as its organizing principle can endure any longer. So far, this theory has been right on the money. It is worth noting that the first emerging great power of the new century, China, though prone to making threatening statements about Taiwan, spends relatively little on its military.
    Last year Mueller published a follow-up book, The Remnants of War, which argues that fighting below the level of great-power conflict--small-state wars, civil wars, ethnic combat, and clashes among private armies--is also waning. Retreat from Doomsday and The Remnants of War are brilliantly original and urgent books. Combat is not an inevitable result of international discord and human malevolence, Mueller believes. War, rather, is "merely an idea"-- and a really bad idea, like dueling or slavery. This bad idea "has been grafted onto human existence" and can be excised. Yes, the end of war has been predicted before, prominently by H.G. Wells in 1915, and horrible bloodshed followed. But could the predictions be right this time?



    irst, the numbers. The University of Maryland studies find the number of wars and armed conflicts worldwide peaked in 1991 at 51, which may represent the most wars happening simultaneously at any point in history. Since 1991, the number has fallen steadily. There were 26 armed conflicts in 2000 and 25 in 2002, even after the Al Qaeda attack on the United States and the U.S. counterattack against Afghanistan. By 2004, Marshall and Gurr's latest study shows, the number of armed conflicts in the world had declined to 20, even after the invasion of Iraq. All told, there were less than half as many wars in 2004 as there were in 1991.
    Marshall and Gurr also have a second ranking, gauging the magnitude of fighting. This section of the report is more subjective. Everyone agrees that the worst moment for human conflict was World War II; but how to rank, say, the current separatist fighting in Indonesia versus, say, the Algerian war of independence is more speculative. Nevertheless, the Peace and Conflict studies name 1991 as the peak post-World War II year for totality of global fighting, giving that year a ranking of 179 on a scale that rates the extent and destructiveness of combat. By 2000, in spite of war in the Balkans and genocide in Rwanda, the number had fallen to 97; by 2002 to 81; and, at the end of 2004, it stood at 65. This suggests the extent and intensity of global combat is now less than half what it was 15 years ago.
    How can war be in such decline when evening newscasts are filled with images of carnage? One reason fighting seems to be everywhere is that, with the ubiquity of 24-hour cable news and the Internet, we see many more images of conflict than before. A mere decade ago, the rebellion in Eritrea occurred with almost no world notice; the tirelessly globe-trotting Robert Kaplan wrote of meeting with Eritrean rebels who told him they hoped that at least spy satellites were trained on their region so that someone, somewhere, would know of their struggle. Today, fighting in Iraq, Sudan, and other places is elaborately reported on, with a wealth of visual details supplied by minicams and even camera-enabled cell phones. News organizations must prominently report fighting, of course. But the fact that we now see so many visuals of combat and conflict creates the impression that these problems are increasing: Actually, it is the reporting of the problems that is increasing, while the problems themselves are in decline. Television, especially, likes to emphasize war because pictures of fighting, soldiers, and military hardware are inherently more compelling to viewers than images of, say, water-purification projects. Reports of violence and destruction are rarely balanced with reports about the overwhelming majority of the Earth's population not being harmed.
    Mueller calculates that about 200 million people were killed in the twentieth century by warfare, other violent conflicts, and government actions associated with war, such as the Holocaust. About twelve billion people lived during that century, meaning that a person of the twentieth century had a 1 to 2 percent chance of dying as the result of international war, ethnic fighting, or government-run genocide. A 1 to 2 percent chance, Mueller notes, is also an American's lifetime chance of dying in an automobile accident. The risk varies depending on where you live and who you are, of course; Mueller notes that, during the twentieth century, Armenians, Cambodians, Jews, kulaks, and some others had a far higher chance of death by war or government persecution than the global average. Yet, with war now in decline, for the moment men and women worldwide stand in more danger from cars and highways than from war and combat. World Health Organization statistics back this: In 2000, for example, 300,000 people died in combat or for war-related reasons (such as disease or malnutrition caused by war), while 1.2 million worldwide died in traffic accidents. That 300,000 people perished because of war in 2000 is a terrible toll, but it represents just .005 percent of those alive in that year.
    This low global risk of death from war probably differs greatly from most of the world's past. In prehistory, tribal and small-group violence may have been endemic. Steven LeBlanc, a Harvard University archeologist, asserts in his 2003 book about the human past, Constant Battles, that warfare was a steady feature of primordial society. LeBlanc notes that, when the aboriginal societies of New Guinea were first observed by Europeans in the 1930s, one male in four died by violence; traditional New Guinean society was organized around endless tribal combat. Unremitting warfare characterized much of the history of Europe, the Middle East, and other regions; perhaps one-fifth of the German population died during the Thirty Years War, for instance. Now the world is in a period in which less than one ten-thousandth of its population dies from fighting in a year. The sheer number of people who are not being harmed by warfare is without precedent.



    ext consider a wonderful fact: Global military spending is also in decline. Stated in current dollars, annual global military spending peaked in 1985, at $1.3 trillion, and has been falling since, to slightly over $1 trillion in 2004, according to the Center for Defense Information, a nonpartisan Washington research organization. Since the global population has risen by one-fifth during this period, military spending might have been expected to rise. Instead, relative to population growth, military spending has declined by a full third. In current dollars, the world spent $260 per capita on arms in 1985 and $167 in 2004.
    The striking decline in global military spending has also received no attention from the press, which continues to promote the notion of a world staggering under the weight of instruments of destruction. Only a few nations, most prominently the United States, have increased their defense spending in the last decade. Today, the United States accounts for 44 percent of world military spending; if current trends continue, with many nations reducing defense spending while the United States continues to increase such spending as its military is restructured for new global anti-terrorism and peacekeeping roles, it is not out of the question that, in the future, the United States will spend more on arms and soldiers than the rest of the world combined.
    Declining global military spending is exactly what one would expect to find if war itself were in decline. The peak year in global military spending came only shortly before the peak year for wars, 1991. There's an obvious chicken-or-egg question, whether military spending has fallen because wars are rarer or whether wars are rarer because military spending has fallen. Either way, both trend lines point in the right direction. This is an extremely favorable development, particularly for the world's poor--the less developing nations squander on arms, the more they can invest in improving daily lives of their citizens.


    hat is causing war to decline? The most powerful factor must be the end of the cold war, which has both lowered international tensions and withdrawn U.S. and Soviet support from proxy armies in the developing world. Fighting in poor nations is sustained by outside supplies of arms. To be sure, there remain significant stocks of small arms in the developing world--particularly millions of assault rifles. But, with international arms shipments waning and heavy weapons, such as artillery, becoming harder to obtain in many developing nations, factions in developing-world conflicts are more likely to sue for peace. For example, the long, violent conflict in Angola was sustained by a weird mix of Soviet, American, Cuban, and South African arms shipments to a potpourri of factions. When all these nations stopped supplying arms to the Angolan combatants, the leaders of the factions grudgingly came to the conference table.
    During the cold war, Marshall notes, it was common for Westerners to say there was peace because no fighting affected the West. Actually, global conflict rose steadily during the cold war, but could be observed only in the developing world. After the cold war ended, many in the West wrung their hands about a supposed outbreak of "disorder" and ethnic hostilities. Actually, both problems went into decline following the cold war, but only then began to be noticed in the West, with confrontation with the Soviet empire no longer an issue.
    Another reason for less war is the rise of peacekeeping. The world spends more every year on peacekeeping, and peacekeeping is turning out to be an excellent investment. Many thousands of U.N., nato, American, and other soldiers and peacekeeping units now walk the streets in troubled parts of the world, at a cost of at least $3 billion annually. Peacekeeping has not been without its problems; peacekeepers have been accused of paying very young girls for sex in Bosnia and Africa, and nato bears collective shame for refusing support to the Dutch peacekeeping unit that might have prevented the Srebrenica massacre of 1995. But, overall, peacekeeping is working. Dollar for dollar, it is far more effective at preventing fighting than purchasing complex weapons systems. A recent study from the notoriously gloomy rand Corporation found that most U.N. peacekeeping efforts have been successful.
    Peacekeeping is just one way in which the United Nations has made a significant contribution to the decline of war. American commentators love to disparage the organization in that big cereal-box building on the East River, and, of course, the United Nations has manifold faults. Yet we should not lose track of the fact that the global security system envisioned by the U.N. charter appears to be taking effect. Great-power military tensions are at the lowest level in centuries; wealthy nations are increasingly pressured by international diplomacy not to encourage war by client states; and much of the world respects U.N. guidance. Related to this, the rise in "international engagement," or the involvement of the world community in local disputes, increasingly mitigates against war.
    The spread of democracy has made another significant contribution to the decline of war. In 1975, only one-third of the world's nations held true multiparty elections; today two-thirds do, and the proportion continues to rise. In the last two decades, some 80 countries have joined the democratic column, while hardly any moved in the opposite direction. Increasingly, developing-world leaders observe the simple fact that the free nations are the strongest and richest ones, and this creates a powerful argument for the expansion of freedom. Theorists at least as far back as Immanuel Kant have posited that democratic societies would be much less likely to make war than other kinds of states. So far, this has proved true: Democracy-against-democracy fighting has been extremely rare. Prosperity and democracy tend to be mutually reinforcing. Now prosperity is rising in most of the world, amplifying the trend toward freedom. As ever-more nations become democracies, ever-less war can be expected, which is exactly what is being observed.



    or the great-power nations, the arrival of nuclear deterrence is an obvious factor in the decline of war. The atomic bomb debuted in 1945, and the last great-power fighting, between the United States and China, concluded not long after, in 1953. From 1871 to 1914, Europe enjoyed nearly half a century without war; the current 52-year great-power peace is the longest period without great-power war since the modern state system emerged. Of course, it is possible that nuclear deterrence will backfire and lead to a conflagration beyond imagination in its horrors. But, even at the height of the cold war, the United States and the Soviet Union never seriously contemplated a nuclear exchange. If it didn't happen then, it seems unlikely for the future.
    In turn, lack of war among great nations sets an example for the developing world. When the leading nations routinely attacked neighbors or rivals, governments of emerging states dreamed of the day when they, too, could issue orders to armies of conquest. Now that the leading nations rarely use military force--and instead emphasize economic competition--developing countries imitate that model. This makes the global economy more turbulent, but reduces war.
    In The Remnants of War, Mueller argues that most fighting in the world today happens because many developing nations lack "capable government" that can contain ethnic conflict or prevent terrorist groups, militias, and criminal gangs from operating. Through around 1500, he reminds us, Europe, too, lacked capable government: Criminal gangs and private armies roamed the countryside. As European governments became competent, and as police and courts grew more respected, legitimate government gradually vanquished thug elements from most of European life. Mueller thinks this same progression of events is beginning in much of the developing world. Government and civil institutions in India, for example, are becoming more professional and less corrupt--one reason why that highly populous nation is not falling apart, as so many predicted it would. Interstate war is in substantial decline; if civil wars, ethnic strife, and private army fighting also go into decline, war may be ungrafted from the human experience.



    s it possible to believe that war is declining, owing to the spread of enlightenment? This seems the riskiest claim. Human nature has let us down many times before. Some have argued that militarism as a philosophy was destroyed in World War II, when the states that were utterly dedicated to martial organization and violent conquest were not only beaten but reduced to rubble by free nations that initially wanted no part of the fight. World War II did represent the triumph of freedom over militarism. But memories are short: It is unrealistic to suppose that no nation will ever be seduced by militarism again.
    Yet the last half-century has seen an increase in great nations acting in an enlightened manner toward one another. Prior to this period, the losing sides in wars were usually punished; consider the Versailles Treaty, whose punitive terms helped set in motion the Nazi takeover of Germany. After World War II, the victors did not punish Germany and Japan, which made reasonably smooth returns to prosperity and acceptance by the family of nations. Following the end of the cold war, the losers--the former Soviet Union and China--have seen their national conditions improve, if fitfully; their reentry into the family of nations has gone reasonably well and has been encouraged, if not actively aided, by their former adversaries. Not punishing the vanquished should diminish the odds of future war, since there are no generations who suffer from the victor's terms, become bitter, and want vengeance.
    Antiwar sentiment is only about a century old in Western culture, and Mueller thinks its rise has not been given sufficient due. As recently as the Civil War in the United States and World War I in Europe, it was common to view war as inevitable and to be fatalistic about the power of government to order men to march to their deaths. A spooky number of thinkers even adulated war as a desirable condition. Kant, who loved democracy, nevertheless wrote that war is "sublime" and that "prolonged peace favors the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice and effeminacy." Alexis De Tocqueville said that war "enlarges the mind of a people." Igor Stravinsky called war "necessary for human progress." In 1895, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. told the graduating class of Harvard that one of the highest expressions of honor was "the faith ... which leads a soldier to throw away his life in obedience to a blindly accepted duty."
    Around the turn of the twentieth century, a counter-view arose--that war is usually absurd. One of the bestselling books of late-nineteenth-century Europe, Lay Down Your Arms!, was an antiwar novel. Organized draft resistance in the United Kingdom during World War I was a new force in European politics. England slept during the '30s in part because public antiwar sentiment was intense. By the time the U.S. government abolished the draft at the end of the Vietnam War, there was strong feeling in the United States that families would no longer tolerate being compelled to give up their children for war. Today, that feeling has spread even to Russia, such a short time ago a totalitarian, militaristic state. As average family size has decreased across the Western world, families have invested more in each child; this should discourage militarism. Family size has started to decrease in the developing world, too, so the same dynamic may take effect in poor nations.
    There is even a chance that the ascent of economics to its pinnacle position in modern life reduces war. Nations interconnected by trade may be less willing to fight each other: If China and the United States ever fought, both nations might see their economies collapse. It is true that, in the decades leading up to World War I, some thought rising trade would prevent war. But today's circumstances are very different from those of the fin de siècle. Before World War I, great powers still maintained the grand illusion that there could be war without general devastation; World Wars I and II were started by governments that thought they could come out ahead by fighting. Today, no major government appears to believe that war is the best path to nationalistic or monetary profit; trade seems much more promising.
    The late economist Julian Simon proposed that, in a knowledge-based economy, people and their brainpower are more important than physical resources, and thus the lives of a country's citizens are worth more than any object that might be seized in war. Simon's was a highly optimistic view--he assumed governments are grounded in reason--and yet there is a chance this vision will be realized. Already, most Western nations have achieved a condition in which citizens' lives possess greater economic value than any place or thing an army might gain by combat. As knowledge-based economics spreads throughout the world, physical resources may mean steadily less, while life means steadily more. That's, well, enlightenment.
    In his 1993 book, A History of Warfare, the military historian John Keegan recognized the early signs that combat and armed conflict had entered a cycle of decline. War "may well be ceasing to commend itself to human beings as a desirable or productive, let alone rational, means of reconciling their discontents," Keegan wrote. Now there are 15 years of positive developments supporting the idea. Fifteen years is not all that long. Many things could still go badly wrong; there could be ghastly surprises in store. But, for the moment, the trends have never been more auspicious: Swords really are being beaten into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks. The world ought to take notice.

    Gregg Easterbrook is a senior editor at TNR and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution.
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  4. #19
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    Doesn't surprise me too much. It does make me want to fearfully knock on wood, though. I keep waiting for the letdown. It's simply too good to be true. Something horrible is going to happen, I just know it.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral
    Doesn't surprise me too much. It does make me want to fearfully knock on wood, though. I keep waiting for the letdown. It's simply too good to be true. Something horrible is going to happen, I just know it.
    History tends to support that statement. Things tend to happen in cycles, right now things are pretty stable (relatively speaking) and will probably remain so for at least another 20-30 years. A large portion of the worlds power rests in the hands of a small number of nations and none of them are particularly interested in starting a major war anytime soon.

    The issue will arise when power becomes more equalized between alot of countries. Competition to be top dog will take over then, particularly if those countries are driven by religion or forcing other countries to adopt their style of government.

    So for now your fine.

  6. #21
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    Yay! I'm so relieved.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  7. #22
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    Aha. I was trying to figure out why this thread kept coming up without any new posts. Then I remembered that it's a poll. So, interesting results so far, at least to me. I hadn't expected there to be so many optimists out there, knew there were a few, but there seems to be about twice as many as there are of the "we're getting richer, but corrupt" crowd. Kinda the reverse of what I expected. On the other hand, it's definitely possible that the optimists just want to get the word out, and the pessimists just take it for granted that the world is deteriorating. Lots of world sucks votes since last time I looked, but no comments blaming it on Bush/capitalism. Interesting.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  8. #23
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    Let's see how popular the whine "moral decline" is.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e+Search&meta=

    Wow!

  9. #24
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    We are somewhere between
    "End of the world as we know it" (and I feel fine)

    and

    "The futures so bright I gotta wear shades".


    I bet one of those songs sticks in someones head
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  10. #25
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    I think the world is going over the deep end. Technology is advancing at the cost of the enviroment. United States is trying to assert its hegemony. China is trying to gain hegemony. The rise of extremism in Islam is making for an unsafe world. Africa has gone to ****. Basically, things are in a bad way. (not to mention things like the tsunamis or hurricaines ruining everything)

    Solution?

    I think there could be a solution to the worlds problem. But you won't like what I think, nor most likely enjoy it.
    [Wasting Space]

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajan
    I think the world is going over the deep end. Technology is advancing at the cost of the enviroment. United States is trying to assert its hegemony. China is trying to gain hegemony. The rise of extremism in Islam is making for an unsafe world. Africa has gone to ****. Basically, things are in a bad way. (not to mention things like the tsunamis or hurricaines ruining everything)
    .
    There is absolutely nothing in the above that could not be said about any time in recorded history.
    What could not be said in any point in recorded history until now however is that global life expectancy is about 67 years.
    So certainly materially (and I would argue that therefore morally as the world is a holistic place) things are getting better and better.
    http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0448.shtml

  12. #27
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    Look at the world of the 1800s and early 1900s. You had colonial empires dominating 90% of the world's nations, slavery/extreme racial discrimination, women had few rights, most men didn't have much in the way of rights either, constant wars between major world powers, extremely unsafe working conditions, little sanitation, environmental conditions poorer than today, etc. Today, everywhere is better off except possibly Africa. Hell, the world as a whole is even moving closer to free market capitalism. The pre-WWI era was also relatively free market (in some ways more so than now), but that era of classical liberalism had to compete with too many negative influences to be able to last. The current era of relatively free markets is more expansive and stable.

    Only if you accept arbitrary religious morals (some religious morals happen to be rational morals as well, but not even close to all of them) is it even possible to argue that we are morally worse off. Unless you don't think ending/minimizing discrimination, promoting rule of law and democracy, and reducing crime and poverty are moral aims as well as material aims, we are definitly better off morally.
    Last edited by ZFBoxcar; 05 Jun 06, at 00:59.

  13. #28
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    Cuban Missile Crisis. The Berlin Wall Crisis. How many times did we actually cocked the nuclear trigger - ON PURPOSE! The world is alot better.

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    You can't judge the world to be better or worse on what COULD have happened. Okay, thats not quite fair, since nuclear weapons are real and so have to be considered. But I'd still say MAD has been better than WWI and WWII. And there is no reason why we wouldn't have had more wars like those if there were no nukes.

    Also, how would you categorize the Berlin Wall crisis or the Cuban Missile Crisis as making the world materially or morally worse? It could be that the shadow of nuclear war (not the war itself) makes the world worse (I don't agree, but its arguable), but does it make us materially worse off? And is a nation fighting a war with more powerful weapons more immoral than a nation fighting with less powerful weapons? I wouldn't say so, but I guess if you argue that some weapons are immoral, then the user of that weapon would also be immoral. So while you make a good case for the world not being perfect, I don't think it demonstrates the world being worse than 150 years ago.
    Last edited by ZFBoxcar; 05 Jun 06, at 01:50.

  15. #30
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    Anytime you step back from mass suicide is a good thing.

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